Kickbox

Mr. Klase was a hero to many. If he fought in VietNam he was a bonified American hero...having served this country in war. Pay no attention to critics. If you come on a forum expect to be side swiped by people that don't have any other way to get attention.

Good point Jay. Some people say JKD died with Bruce lee. Most say there are two JKDs. The Bruce Lee style called OJKD and the Bruce Lee philosophy called JKDC.

Hansen, When it comes to Lewis' personality I am far from being a Joe Lewis fan. Everyone that has ever known him well agree he is a major a-hole who complains about everyone. Still he was the greatest karate fighter of all time. You can say I am a fan of the fighter not the person when it comes to Joe Lewis. Bruce Lee also had a very arrogant personality and I have heard most in his era detested him. After he died he became famous. I imagine you are caught in the Bruce Lee envy department. I am just bringing some objectivity to the mix. Whoever you get your Chuck Norris info from is misinformed. Chuck Norris is the nicest guy on the planet. Chuck knows honor and maintains integrity. Who knows if Lee hadn't died by his own 'misadventure' he may have today been Norris' equal in the good character catergory.

Remember that Joe Lewis was a "real" warrior. He fought in Vietnam as a US Marine. Before going to VietNam Lewis was a bodybuilder with a Mr.America level physique. Lewis also trained as a wrestler and planned to become a professional wrestler before getting the karate "bug" when stationed on Okinawa. On his return to the US in 1966 Lewis and several buddies visited Mexico where Lewis was attacked by several Mexicans at a bordelo. The little guys were beaten even though one had a knife and lewis was all alone. So many of the Bruce Lee 'ledgens" just don't make sense. There is no way Lee could have known vale tudo/BJJ methods of ground fighting in the 1960's. In a tournament fight or a street fight the incredible Howard Williams could have taken Bruce Lee. If Lee had trained for tournaments or valetudo he would have been great. Bruce trained to be a great teacher and martial arts actor. Let the fighters be fighters and the actors be actors. Chuck Norris may have been "only" a point fighter but at one time he was the best in the world. Now he's a millionaire and coul care less about what some of us think on a forum.

Jbonel1, What the competitors and champions always say is "they put it on the line, took the lumps and tested their courage under fire". There is some truth there. I have heard some say "I could have earned a college degree", or "I could have shot a hole in 1", or "I could have gone out with the prom queen".. I mean there are many excuses including "I could have fought and won". When the champions like Stone, Norris and Lewis say"Bruce never fought" they mean only Bruce never fought in tournaments. Then you have the group that feel the need to give excuses for Bruce like "He was too good/fast/deadly etc.". Chuck Norris never fought in any full contact/kickboxing matches either. But at one time Norris was the undisputed champion. If the matches between Chuck and Joe were full contact then the score would more likely be 4-0 for Lewis. I still hold Chuck Norris in high regard because he is a man of character who gives to others and puts others first. I would follow him as the best role model. Bruce's life style led to an early grave. Joe Lewis was the champ but he never developed an organization and his movie career crashed plus I hear he now has health issues from the fast paced lifestyle. I wouldn't pick either Joe or Bruce as a role model except they were two great martial artists.

Hansen, Of the people you mention, Stone, Lee, Lewis and Norris I pick Chuck Norris for best all round. You may have heard that Norris is a black belt in Machado BJJ as well as master of his own TSD syste. Let's face it guys like Norris and lewis were persued by many masters to become their disciple or convert to their system. Bruce lee knew it was in his best interest to affilliate his art with known champions. The Lewis saga is confusing. on the one hand lewis was the best fighter of the bunch. He seemed to recognize Lee as his mentor. Still i can find interview after interview in which he talks trash about the little dragon.The 1970 kickboxing was anything goes. the guys even wore tennis shoes! One account from Official Karate said that Lewis faced a 6'8'' 280 lb black belt champion who kneeded him in the chest before Lewis unleashed a JKD hook punch in the second round to knock the guy out. Remember the first UFC? The ref didn't know what to call. Same for the first few kickboxing bouts. Anything that the ref didn't stop counted! It's easy to look at todays' champs like Cung Le, for example, and say they could have killed Lewis in full contact. But the fact is lewis was the "Cung Le" of his time and he had no competition. As a person I think Chuck Norris is the people's champ. As far as lewis versus lee. I go with the big man with actual fights under his belt. As far as ledgens Bruce Lee will always be king. Lee is more popular today then when he was alive.

I remember when Dr.Beasley basically created the "Original" JKD term in Karate International magazine back in the 90's. Everyone seemed to agree with him that there were two JKD's but why" In the article, thanks to Linda Lee, Dr.Beasley was able to put a time line on the transition that makes it all seem a little easier to understand. In some forums people complained about ted Wong and Jerry Poteet because they say those guys were "stuck" in the "old" JKD. What Dr.Beasley's article shows is that what Bruce lee taught to guys like Wong and Poteet was actually JKD ( at least as it was understood before 1970). And the 1971 "Liberate" article finally makes sense. Bruce had an art, he taught the art, he asked others to identify his art, but now in the '71 article he claims he didn't have an art. Now we know why. He was rewriting the Krishnamurti phrases to become JKD. When people talk about the JKD "concept" they are actually addressing the highly sophisticated Krishnamurti influenced ( Watts also) JKD philosophy that has been expertly "filled-in" by Guro Dan, just the way Bruce asked him to do it. And when people identify OJKD they have the "origin" of the 1960's art hand crafted by Bruce Lee himself. Both are the same Bruce Lee inspired methods with different bodies. Nice work.

The UFC is the beginning of MMA. It's possible to win UFC with just grappeling or just hands (Chuck Liddel did it). No one has won with just kicks ( sorry TKD guys). When you limit your self to just one art like kung fu you are at a disavantage. Learn the best ways to punch, kick and grappel and forget about being kung fu. Compete in ameture wrestling and boxing events. Lift weights. Eat right. Do these things and you'll have a shot at the UFC title.

Mr.Kanerek learned haganah in Isreal and came to the US because his favorite TV show was Miami Vice. He lived in Miami,Fl. He earned a black belt in TKD ans had Joe Lewis, Dr.Beasley, Ted Wong and others as combat instructors to add to his TKD program. A few years ago he took all of his knowledge and combined it with the Haganah he learned as a soilder in Isreal. He learned from the best and developed his own unique style. And he is very good. He taught gun disarms at Karate College.

Of course He Ill Cho is a 9th dan. Ask him if he would rather be 35 again and be only a 5th dan. He will say of course! The problem with high rank is that it is acquired only with advanced age. It's not the goal but the journey to the goal that's enjoyable. Ninth dan is the end of the journey. It sounds much better before you get there.

The old American karate/kickboxing rank schedule went something like this: Age 16 1st dan. It takes two years to make 2nd dan (18), 3 years to make 3rd dan(21), 4 years to make 4th dan (25), 5 years to make 5th dan (30), and 5 years for each master level rank. Sixth dan (35), 7th dan ( 40), 8th dan (45), 9th dan (50), 10th dan (55). Some people/styles say you must have enough time in grade to equal the next rank. So 7 years from 6th dan to 7th dan,8 years from 7th dan to 8th dan etc. You would be 70 to make 10th dan. Now days money talks so some people buy their 6th dans through the mail. If you have 40 years logged as a full time instructor then you've earned the right to call your self a 10th dan.

I have found that the older guys 55 and up who are 8th/9th dans would rather be 35 and 5th/6th dan anyday of the week. Be careful what you wish for. If the guy is under 50 regardless of who he claims to be he's a poser.

You really do have to check it out for yourself. The schools seem to overdo their importance to attract students. Beleive what you see not what you read.

Glockmeister, This could help. I attended the Karate College in VA in June of2005. I took classes with Mike Lee Kanerek the founder of Haganah. The guy is unreal. A super fighter and teacher. I see why his organization is so big. I also took classes with Dr.Jerry Beasley. The guy is incrediblely fast. He teaches a method called trapboxing. Mr.Kanerek, Mr.Wallace, Mr.Pellegrini, Renzo Gracie and others came to his class to watch. Since he never mentions Bruce Lee or JKD in his class I asked him about it and he said he was paid to write about different subjects including JKD. His only connection to JKD was the kickboxing version which they just call "kickboxing'. He does have a new book on JKD for 2006. Mr. Joe lewis was there and had lost 20 pounds .He was also was unbeleiveably fast to be 61 years old.I also met two Paul Vunak instructors at Karate College. Bruce palh and Dave Durch taught kali and trapping. I met Hock Hockhheim and he was a terrefic teacher. Great experience!!! Great weekend.

Ovnie King, I see Mc...as a chain operation. Certainly you will agree thet the JKDC is a chain operation. There are a lot of them. I have no bias against Mr.Inosanto.After reading Dr.Beasley's article in the July issue of Black Belt things seem less political and more clear to me. Before I read the article i thought Guro Dan changed things. Now I think he did what was right. I can also, for the first time see how the OJKD people are very correct. It's two versions of JKD, each represents a particular phase in his life. Both are right and, according to the article, do not oppose each other. See my earlier post " Why Dan Inosanto is the leader".