kickcatcher

from: http://www.jtpowlette.com/about_tang_soo_do.html Is there any credible link betweenm TSD and whatever the Koreans were doing in 36AD?

??? No, many karate schools don't use the "double hip" nor similar "S-wave" mechanics. Power chains vary from school to school in Karate and are often varied dependant on the stance being employed. At the extremes, schools which emphasise Hangatsu dachi (Half-moon or pigeon-toed stances, also found in many Southern Chinese styles from whence they came) have very short/subtle hip motions (sometimes coming close to their "short fist" cousins) whereas other schools which emphasise long Zengatsu Dachi (front/forward stance in TKD) often have very long hip actions. "although the proper position for a formal chamber in TSD is not the hip but with the forearm parallel with the ground and fist in the middle of the rib cage" Likewise for many karate 'styles'. Maybe they knicked it from TSD? The 'hip' chamber (or various hieghts and orientations) can be found in several 'groups' of kung fu. It appears most emphasised in the early 1900s onwards as cross-pollenation increased -as for it appearing in Shaolin... well it isn't in any of the ancient wall painting postures... but then what is Shaolin and what isn't??? So many arts want to call themselves that. Karate is clearly derived from a mix of Southern Chinese Chuan fa. The hip chamber is common to both groups so can reasonably be said to have come from Chuan fa to karate.... and it seems from there to TSD/TKD(?).

The hands, feet and sometimes elbows?

Just curious, something someone said on another thread which I thought deserved a new thread. I've done a few years of Karate training with/in several styles. I've also done a few years of TKD, again mixing widely with different groups. I couldn’t detect any meaningful difference. Obviously, exact mechanics vary greatly between sub-styles/orgs/clubs, and there are extreme variations… but by and large there is a significant common thread throughout. Add to that the habit of chambering the punch from the hip … is it at all likely that the TKD/TSD methods derived from a source other than karate. I’d be curious to think what people think the differences are. And from there, trying to work out whether the diversion is post 1950s… or because of older Korean methods. Some TKD clubs have an absolutely appalling ‘form’ of punching –with shoulders high, wrist misaligned etc –but I put that down to poor instruction and lack of meaningful face punching in training/sparring, facilitating the erosion of form. But then again some ITF offshoots have adopted a more boxing like guard and punching engine (although I’ve yet to see any of these groups rival boxing for efficiency). But this diversion took place in the 1990s(?) and was more a reaction to kickboxing, along with people asking themselves “Why put the hand on the hip???”. Some of the same ITF offshoots went down the road of following through with ‘pure’ form backfists, lateral chops and blocks… more closely resembling some kung fus. And their patterns consequently appear more kung fu like –but again, this is a relatively recent diversion. It is also something I’m seeing less of –the same ‘innovators’ seem to be shifting towards kickboxing, RBSD and MMA.

so you're saying that it's a good way to train to miss?

I can’t see it myself. Whilst the rest of the world uses sharp metal attached to long sticks (such as the Billhook and Kwan Do)…. It would be interesting to hear if anyone’s ever pressure tested the credibility of this ‘history’. http://www.psbba.com/Mr.%20Wall%20flying%20Kick%202%20edit%205-03.jpg -v- http://protein.biochem.queensu.ca/~dlee/San9/maltz/school/figure/armor_han_cavalry.jpg

What % of these styles pre 1950s heritage is actually ‘Korean’? TaeKwonDo –allegedly based on TeaKyon but actually Japanese Karate repackaged as Korean? Tang Soo Do – Anything meaningfully Korean? Hapkido – actually just repackaged Jujitsu with some karate added? Kuk Sool Won – Kung Fu? HwarangDo - ????? Surely not actually related to what the Hwarang Warriors actually did? Yudo – no prize for guessing here… What % of the Korean arts originates in pre-1930s Korean martial Arts?

Thanks for all the answers guys. Re Timing in 1-step drills So you develop timing IF the attacker is un-telegraphed in their attack (? –that’s what people seem to be saying). So you have to time the block (/evasion etc). But because the attacker leaves the strike out and doesn’t actively defend, you’re not developing any timing on your counter attacks. And since you know what the attack is, then timing is easier because you don’t have to guess what defence to use (it’s all scripted). It seems very limited for developing timing –especially when compared to alternative non-compliant drills. So do the compliant 1-step drills, such as originally shown in the original post develop credible timing attributes?

In what way do they help timing? If the attacker is going to attack in a pre-arranged way and then stand there... um, like a lemon... what is there to time?

Agreed. It is irrisponsible because, unlike say guns, it is easy to practice and do by accident -fortunately the people who talk about this kind of stuff usually don't have a clue (regardless of how scientific they appear) so not too much gets out.

Thanks for taking it in the right spirit. Hands up who's doner those types of drill.... me for one. Not now I dictate my own training mind. But they are part and parcel with many clubs/orgs -even styles (dare I say it).

http://usera.imagecave.com/armchairstrategist/fw-compliant.jpg I hope that this cartoon is taken in the spirit is was intended.

Or are they too asbstract to really be benefical? http://www.budget.net/~dnolan/sid-t3-1.jpg

where did you hear that?

I forgot to add... http://tinypic.com/ft2z4