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Tommarker - You did not offend me in the least bit. Maybe I need to watch the tone I use, but I was just caught up in thee debate and by no means took it personal. I just have a firm belief that the roots of Korean and Japanese arts have a firm foundation in the Chinese arts. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk to you or anyone else on this forum. For now on I will watch my tone and will try not to stir up any confrontational debates . I have great respect for your instructor and Master Jorgenson. I have known them both since I have been a little kid and didn't mean to bring Mr. Genna into the debate as any disrespect to him or you. So you didn't offend me, and I hope I didn't offend you and I look foward to discussing topics with you in the future. Tang Soo!

Tom How can you say I have "outdated info" when your own Grandmaster says the exact same things I have been saying all along. If you or your instructor Mr. Sai Genna has the book "Traditional Tang Soo Do Vol. 2" look at page 159 1st thing: There is a picture of Shaolin students doing a hyung that is extremely similar to Pyung Ahn E Dan. This was witnessed by Grandmaster J .C. Shin (MKD Dan #689) Robert Beuadwin (Dan #5XXX - 7th Dan) and Charles Vaugh (5th Dan) GM Shin says they were doing a form very similar to Pyung Ahn E Dan 2nd Thing. On the exact same page - 159 This is written by GM Shin: "During the late 1700's, China sent a military attache named Kong Sang Koon and several other Chinese to Okinawa. Besides his political duties, Kong Sang Koon also taught Chinese Martial Arts at Shuri village, which later became famous for the many renowned masters produced there. Among Kong Sang Koon's many students, "Tode" Sakugawa(1733-cir. 1815) was the most noted master. Sakugawa later passed his knowledge onto Soshu Matsumara (1797-1889) Soshu Matsumura became on of Okinawa's most celebrated masters. He travelled throughout southeren China studying Chinese Martial arts AND BROUGHT HIS KNOWLEDGE BACK TO OKINAWA. One of the forms he was responsible for spreading was "Jae Nam" Around 1870, one of Matsumura's students, Anko Yasutsune Itosu (1832-1916), callled Itos in Korean, reorganized Jae Nam into two "Pinan" forms. He did this because he intended to teach the Pinans to school children and believed the older, Jae Nam, form was too long and complicated for children. The Pinans eventually evolved into five sepaerate forms (earlier someone one this forum claimed there was no evidence that the Pyung Ahn's were one form) Gichan Funakoshi (1868-1957) who was originally a student of Soshu Matsumura and, after Matsumura's death, studied under Master Itosu, made revisions in the Pinans and renamed them"Heian". Funakoshi is credited with introducing the Okinawan fighting arts to Japan and is known as the founder of modern Japanese Karate. It is interesting to note that Itosu originally taught Pinan I and II in the reverse order they are taught today. Gicgen Funakishi is given credit foir reversing the order." Those are not my facts, but those of J C Shin As for the comment of the many Wushu forms, none of them resemble Pyung Ahns, Ask JC Shin, Rober6t Beaudwin, Larry Dercole, and Charles Vaughn what they saw at Shaolin in 1984.

I have heard Kong Sang Koon was a Chinese General living in the 1700's. His student then created the form and named it after his master. The Pyung Ahn system was at one time a single form. Even the traditional order we follow was not the orginal order. I beleive it began with Sah Dan and continued in an order that I don't know. I heard it was later split into 2 forms, then into the 5 we have now. A Wushu Sifu that I have met, began his martial arts training in TSD. We said he was later surprised to see his Grandmaster (an authentic Shaolin Monk that emigrated to the US) teach the original Pyung Ahn form. I have read that many Martial Historians compare the TSD forms to animal styles. I have heard Naihanchi is "Knight on Horse" everyone has heard this description. I have also heard it is also known as stepping on Rice paddies. All Asian martial arts originated in Shaolin. Shaolin Martial arts have also been said to have originated in India.

Yeah its pretty sweet. I also like the demonstration of the 360 jump back kick (A popular kick in Tang Soo Do) Li does.

Check out Century Martial Arts Equipment http://www.centuryfitness.com/ Go to Sparring Gear > Macho > Warrior or Dyna They have Black, Blue, Red, Gold, Green, Silver, and White I think

I should try them jogging. Jet Li did that in Fist of Legend (my favorite Kung Fu movie besides Shaolin vs. Lama) If Jet Li does it, it has got to be effective

I don't actually kick with them What I will do is hold my leg in a side chamber for 10 seconds, then extend it slowly out to a side kick for 10 seconds, then back to chamber. Then I will change angles on my side kick. Like one straight in front, then one 45 degrees, then another to the side. I have only been doing it abou t a week, every other day to give my muscles rest.

Hi nice to meet you My name is Tom Yahner from Arteca's Martial Arts in State College, PA. I used to train under Sai's instructor, Master White in Phillipsburg, PA. I tested for E-Dan in 1996, but left in 1998. In 2003, I started training again in the WTSDA. I bought a lifetime membership (Gold) in 1994, so Grandmaster allowed me to be reinstated to E Dan without having to test over. I started training when I was five years old, so the techniques and forms came back to me in a matter of weeks. I guess starting that young engraned them into my memory banks. Also I am in my early twenties so I still had descent flexibility. I started a WTSDA Thread over in the Tang Soo Do section of Martialtalk.com, so if you ever want to check that forum out.

I have heard the Tang Soo Do system was created by Hwang Kee. He knew the Korean Martial Art, Tae Kyuck, a kicking art (not sure of the spelling) and combined with his knowledge of Northern and Southern Shaolin hand techniques. I heard he spent 10-15 years traveling China and traing with many Wu-Shu masters. When he returned to Korea he combined his knowledge of Taekyuck and Wushu. Tang Soo Do translates to 'Way of the China Hand" and is 60% Tae Kyuck, 30% North Shaolin Long Fist. 10% Southern Shaolin Boxing Others have claimed he trained in Shotokon Karate and copied it just because Tang Soo Do has some of the same exact forms. People don't realize a lot of these forms orginated from Shaolin Amimals (Pyung Ahn-Turtle) (Naihanchi - Horse) (Bassai - Snake) (Sip Soo - Tiger or Bear) (Jindo, Ro Hai - Crane) (Kong Sang Koon - Eagle or Dragon) They did not originate in Korea or Japan, instead in China. I have talked to US Shaolin Sifus (Gold Sash) and they have shown me forms that look exactly like TSD forms.

I have heard using ankle weight (taking care in not damaging joints) is a great way to develop kicking technique. I have just starting trying them out a few days ago, so I haven't seen any results yet except the side of my quads and glutes feel burnt. Anyone have any experience or suggesstions whit ankle weight training?

Hey whats up. I didn't realize you lived in Pittsburgh. Good to see that area is being populated by WTSDA studios between you, River Valley and Imperial. Both my parents are from Kennedy Township over near Robinson Township and Greater Pittsburgh International Airport. Buckeye Tang Soo Do, that's Sai's studio, correct? I remember him from Master White's class years ago. I used to go up there once or twice a month. I replyed to your message over on MartialTalk. Thanks for the advice, especially about not rushing the form. I start my form at a good pace, then it speeds up as I go, and by the end, I rush it. Master Arteca filmed me doing Jindo in class, and I noticed myself rushing the form. Sometimes it just takes watching yourself once to see what people are telling you. Things that feel good don't always look good. I started training there a year ago. I ran into Jared in downtown State College one night. Our conversation inspired me to start training again. I am really glad I am back, it has been nothing but positve. I have talked to Master White, Master Kaye, and other Penn State/Appallechia black belts, and they have been very friendly and supportive of me training again. I appriciate that. They could have taken offense to me joining another studio, but they took the higher road and welcomed me back. I will always remember that. I responded to you post on the other forum. I will keep the Wtsda thread alive on both, maybe it will draw in more association members.

It took me 6 years to get Black Belt, but I was 11 years old when I got Cho Dan. At my school, they did't like to test people when they were that young, so I had to go through extensive evaluation by may instructor, his instructor, and his instructor. Then it took me three more years to get E-Dan. I got E-Dan in 1996, stopped training in 98, started back again in 2003 and now I have to wait until fall 2006 to get Sam Dan. So I would have been an E-Dan for a decade,

Anyone out ther a member of the WTSDA?