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I think Martial arts in the U.S. costs too much to make it efficient. The U.S. doesn't seem like a good place for it at all. For example, in Thailand, there are "gyms" or whatever you wanna call them; practice places where poor people live. They practice there whenever they want because they live there and that's pretty much what they do in life. There are other ones though where people don't live, but over there it's like going to a park and playing basketball here. But here in the U.S., you can't just "go to the park and practice martial arts" like that. Well, you could... But who does? There, many people. You can just jump right in. Here, not so many, so you have to go to a dojo which charges like $100+ per month. Then of course you gotta buy gloves... Not just any gloves, but the ones they want you to buy. $20-30... Helmet, $100, and whatever else you need. The dojo I went to even made you pay for a new belt that you supposedly "earned", made you pay for tournament entry, a trivial little patch for the uniform, and the list goes on and on... In my opinion, this is ridiculous and it kills the whole thing. The instructor I had is seriously world reknown, was an Olympic referee and one of the few Karate guys left who know all 60 whatever Kata in addition to knowing the heir of Shito-Ryu Karate closely. While that's all good, that still doesn't justify the price in my opinion. I come from a family where my dad is an idiot and doesn't want to support his family. If I were in Thailand or other parts of Asia, I could go practice Martial arts. Here, I can't... Why? Because you need to pay a monthly fee, probably need insurance, and all this other trash just cuz we're in the U.S.A. Now, as an individual educated in economics, I fully understand. I know that prices are high because if they weren't, people couldn't stay in business. I know all about building leasing, bills, etc... So I'm not angry at the individuals who do these things... I'm just saying the U.S. system doesn't seem to be ideal for martial arts... At least in my area. The government provides basketball and baseball locations and equipment in my area for free. I think this would be needed for martial arts to truely "take off" here. It just sucks how something so cool was ruined for me because of high prices. When in fact in the originating countries, the poorer people are the ones who probably do it most anyway. Anyone have any input? Advice?

Ahhh. Thank you for the information! ^^

Well I hope you understand that my goal was not to stir up a big debate and not to drop insults down on UFC and Pride. I'm just someone who has a brain and sees "hey, in Karate, we're taught to kick FAST and bring leg BACK" which contrasts to most of what I see in the match fights. One question I do have is, how "much" are those guys "fighting?" Are they giving 100% to beat on each other or do they not fight quite as if they were on the street (using as much power, etc...)? Is there a specific reason why we don't see as much JKD/Karate in the fights? Do the type of people who learn those disciplines just not want to be involved as much? Thanks for replying.

I'd like to get educated in UFC and Pride a little more just to understand. These matches confuse me becuase of the following reasons: 1. The fighters seem to strike like street fighters who were never taught much about fighting. They seem to just "go wild" on their opponent rather than using precision, fast, and powerful strikes. 2. The guys seem to be incredibly slow at times. I am taught to kick hard, strong, and have my leg back within a fraction of a second. A lot of UFC/Pride fighters seem to just swing their legs out 20x slower than they should leading to a grab. I also saw a Tae Kwon Do fighter in a match who kicked his opponent about 50 times... Every time he was too slow and it just got blocked/grabbed. So I wonder, why are these guys so slow and "hulk"ish? Why don't some fast and powerful guys come and win? If you want to see what I'm talking about, go look at this fight. If those guys were not in a ring with those uniforms on, I wouldn't have even thought they were UFC fighters. Great punch, but the rest of the fight seems to be very slow and strange really. here is another example. If you would like to see more, you can click the other videos on the right. Thanks for your time.

Ok, thanks so much guys! I was thinking about it today and I got a better attitude towards Karate. I just might give it a try (The man here said $30 for 2 weeks, 6 days a week and free uniform for trial purposes) to see if its for me. One thing I learned from what you guys said is I'll get what I take out of it and the "style" shouldn't dominate me anyway. Thanks again!

Thanks for the replies guys. I really appreciate it. I thought I'd point out that I'm fully aware that fighting is not usually necessary, but I'm talking about when one actually is required to fight, is Karate very helpful? Another question I have is about board breaking. Is it always done in Karate-Do? Is it always necessary? I ask because I'm not too fond of the idea because it doesn't seem to have much to do with self-defense to me. As Bruce Lee put it, "Boards don't hit back." I read about some belt tests requiring this on this message board and I'm a little confused as to why chopping boards would have anything to do with self-defense. Also, I'd like to ask what your guys' opinions are on this video and what it says. Thanks again.

Please read this topic to get a sense of where I am coming from. On to the topic at hand... Basically, I'm wondering how effective Karate is in the combat/fighting scene (not for sports or play)? Is it a strong art? Would a Karate master be able to compete with Tony Jaa? I'm trying to decide what to go into, and there's an authentic Japanese Karate-Do place down the street I was thinking about. However, having read about Muay Boran (Combat Muay Thai) and seen Ong-Bak, I'm wondering if Karate is truely as strong and practical as Muay Boran or Bruce Lee's practices. To be honest, in the past, I've always looked at Karate as board-chopping, kicking, punching, etc... But, I've never seen its use in any practical circumstances where someone is unexpectedly (or expectedly) attacked and puts it to real use against people bigger than him. The other thing that makes me question Karate is that the word is flat-out generic here in the U.S.A. Everyone is either listed under Martial Arts or Karate. Karate, Karate, Karate. It's so common that I wonder how many people are even qualified to teach it in an effective manner. Now, it may seem demeaning that I come to KARATEForums and ask such a question, but I hope it is understood that I am DEFINATELY not trying to come off rude or anything. I just want to learn a powerful art that will actually help me in the real world (Not in the training room) as opposed to doing it for fun/sport/recreation. Because, if I want fun/sport/recreation, I'll just continue running. Thanks for all of your help.

Well, basically, I am not in any martial arts class, however, I'd like to get a punching bag. Before I do though, I have a few questions/problems: I'm not sure which weight is good for me. I'm about 160lbs and about 6' tall or so. I'd like to be able to lay into the bag though, not hold off because it is not strong enough. The other thing is, I have no idea where I can put the bag or what to hook it onto that won't get destroyed. Thanks for the help.

Being a teenager in modern society, I've noticed some really interesting things. Bruce Lee was more than just a fighter obviously... He was also a very intellectual person who studied major concepts that people today still do not understand and are ignorant about. Such concepts as the difference between the attitude of an average Westerner and an average Oriental... And that actually being good at fighting is totally different than acting "tough." Well, in modern society (and maybe it's always been this way in the past too), I'm sure you've noticed that people always think "Bigger and tougher" is better. They think "He could kick that kid's *" and etc simply by looking at someone. Though almost none of these people know how to fight whatsoever. They judge fighting skill based upon muscle size and ego. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. The sad part is that a large majority of the world falls for this stuff. I'm not sure if it's from movies or what. I am not a martial artist (yet), I'm simply an individual who is interested in this type of study and Bruce Lee's beliefs. I'm also interested in martial arts and hope to some time join up. So I'd love the insight of experienced martial artists here. My question for you is this: Will someone who trains day in and day out in martial arts, no matter their ego/size, most likely defeat someone who just acts (and possibly looks) tough but knows nothing about fighting other than maybe a few fights he has experienced? To take this to another level. Would Bruce Lee most likely defeat people like "Kimbo Slice?" I remember talking to a lot of people once about Kimbo and all of them said things like "OMG, Kimbo would kill Bruce Lee, he's much bigger" "Hahah, You need to let go of Bruce" etc... I think you get the point. My other question is, are these fighters really as dedicated as Bruce Lee was or is it more of a "showy" thing now adays? I remember Bruce Lee saying that he believed fighting was to express yourself honestly... Thanks for your time. EDIT: If you havn't seen "Kimbo Slice" here's a video...But be warned, it's quite violent: Click. As you can see, he's much different than Bruce Lee in that he seems to lack any sort of discipline and basically acts like a ranting "tough" kid.

Ok thanks guys. I'll try some of the punching bag-like ideas. Thanks for the punching advice too. I'll try practicing. ^^

Please post responses here. Thanks.

Well it will be a while before the next session of the martial arts that I wanted to join starts (I had to forego the one starting in January because I was injured) and I really would like to know the difference between a martial artist's punch and just the every day man's attempt at a punch. What I do know is that martial artists use their whole body. Everyday people simply use their arm muscles. What I don't know is how to do it. Or more specifically how it feels. I have a few guesses but I'm not sure which way is right. I have a DVD called Jeet Kune Do which is of course instructed by Bruce Lee's authorized person to carry on his art. In this DVD he shows how he catches and then punches. He uses the term "slip" too. He says "slip" cross. Etc... What does he mean by "slip?" My question is, how exactly do you "catch" a punch? Usually it comes so fast that I am unable to do much of anything. Let alone hit right back. Now I know what I am asking sounds pretty stupid because it takes a whole lot of practice. But basically there are some guys who sometimes like to joke around or just be stupid and punch at me out of no where or just put their whole body into a push or more like a ram. Are martial arts designed to help you when you are not expecting an attack from someone? Additionally, what would you do in a situation that someone puts their whole body and just kind of runs at you as if to tackle? Back to punching.... Well, when I watch Bruce Lee as he is teaching on his DVD, I see how he uses his feet and whole body. But I have a tendency to overdo this concept. For example, I seem to hop forward when I punch. If it's not hopping, a lot of times I'll turn my entire body when I punch. Also, I seem to like to take the "use your whole body" thing too far too. I almost twist my entire body just to do a simple punch. The other thing I am missing is a punching bag. Do you know of any makeshift alternatives to a punching bag for a while? I really cannot afford one right now. Is it possible to practice without a bag? Thanks.

Well it will be a while before the next session of the martial arts that I wanted to join starts (I had to forego the one starting in January because I was injured) and I really would like to know the difference between a martial artist's punch and just the every day man's attempt at a punch. What I do know is that martial artists use their whole body. Everyday people simply use their arm muscles. What I don't know is how to do it. Or more specifically how it feels. I have a few guesses but I'm not sure which way is right. I have a DVD called Jeet Kune Do which is of course instructed by Bruce Lee's authorized person to carry on his art. In this DVD he shows how he catches and then punches. He uses the term "slip" too. He says "slip" cross. Etc... What does he mean by "slip?" My question is, how exactly do you "catch" a punch? Usually it comes so fast that I am unable to do much of anything. Let alone hit right back. Now I know what I am asking sounds pretty stupid because it takes a whole lot of practice. But basically there are some guys who sometimes like to joke around or just be stupid and punch at me out of no where or just put their whole body into a push or more like a ram. Are martial arts designed to help you when you are not expecting an attack from someone? Additionally, what would you do in a situation that someone puts their whole body and just kind of runs at you as if to tackle? Back to punching.... Well, when I watch Bruce Lee as he is teaching on his DVD, I see how he uses his feet and whole body. But I have a tendency to overdo this concept. For example, I seem to hop forward when I punch. If it's not hopping, a lot of times I'll turn my entire body when I punch. Also, I seem to like to take the "use your whole body" thing too far too. I almost twist my entire body just to do a simple punch. The other thing I am missing is a punching bag. Do you know of any makeshift alternatives to a punching bag for a while? I really cannot afford one right now. Is it possible to practice without a bag? Thanks.

Who would you say is/was the best martial artist out of these?

Ok now that I know that Kung Fu itself is not a martial art, what Chinese martial arts are there? Is there a list or are there a ton or what? Thanks.