Spaceman

Sleep and mediation both rely on changes in brainwave patterns and both drop in the same sort of way, but they're still worlds apart. Both can be really pleasant and relaxing, though. Once I fell asleep while meditating (heh) and woke up an hour later feeling like I'd slept all night. Apparently the deepest sort of trance you can get into aside from sleep is what people experience while chanting and beating a drum, like at pow-wows.

The name makes me think of a number of different things, including a Tibetan monk who likes beans; and a furry, spitting animal from Peru. ... But, really, what can you tell me about this martial art? I can google it and find information about its history and promiting it, but what's it really like? Training, methods, etc.?

Hmm... My uneducated guess as to the difference between the two was just a difference in Romanization schema.

That's pretty close to what I mean. My biggest beef with these places isn't that they're giving kids confidence, etc.--that's a positive thing. My problem is they're trying to pass off fun and good vibes as self-defense. If people really want to learn how to defend themselves in life-or-death situations, they should learn such thing as the "ball kick" and the "throat punch". When I see them teaching to three year olds and talking about how kids are superstars, I see fun and entertainment, not a way to keep your kid from being stolen by a pedophile and used as a funtoy. I should also say about 50% of my motivation for posting that was for light humor value. It wasn't a serious critique, it was me having a laugh by degrading an organization I've never had experience with enough to pass judgement. I was kind of disturbed by the self-defense thing, though. If they are teaching stuff that's not valuable in a "don't be killed" kind of way, then that's something to be worried about.

I've been meaning to put together an extensive list of several things McDojos tend to have in common... because there are a lot. It's a very formulaic and hard to miss thing. I guess if a virus works and nothing stops it, it won't evolve. Anyway, I'll go ahead and start the list. You can add your own observences, etc. since my source info isn't that great at present. At present I'm in a suburb of Tulsa with a big local phonebook on my lap. In the "Martial Arts Instruction" section there are several big ads. One's for Apollo's Karate, a pretty well-known Tulsa "dojo". They put out ads on TV, in print, etc. Quite ubiquitous, and quite McDojo. If you look at the site, it gives the message "Where Every Child is a Superstar!!!" -- that should set off a major alarm. Explore the site a bit. On the classes page, we learn that the kids' programs for 4-6 year olds is referred to as "ninjas". The add in the phonebook has an American flag at around 20% transparency, waving. There's a fellow in a blue gi with a black belt with five yellow stripes on it, helping a grinning kid, who looks to be about four years old. He's correcting the kid's stance, while the kid stares at the camera grinning. The kid's in a red gi with a camo-print belt, black trim, and the name of the school on a logo on the left of his chest. Above them is a little blurb that says "FREE Uniform Call Now!" At the top of the add, insert clipart of a flying kick with red and blue streamers behind it. voted Tulsa's best Apollo's Karate Master Instructor: Dale "Apollo" Cook [badge reading "EZDefense / Turn Your Fear Into Power"] [badge reading "Fitness / kickboxing"] And then phone numbers for four different locations! Here's the best part: in the bottom left corner is a rectangular area reading, "America's Best Karate Kid Program". From this, we can gather a few things. -- McDojos like to be patriotic, to get money and put out good-vibes, wholesome PR. -- They appeal and go after kids... sort of like Joe Camel and Ronald McDonald. -- They try to use people's fear. -- Sometimes they are wildly successful and have lots of schools. -- They don't say what kind of "karate" they teach, often. -- They try to use the appeal of awards and media exposure/saturation. -- Lots of stupid belt "colors" and meaningless ranks. What the hell is camo belt!? -- Cardio kickboxing to lure the mom, too. -- Freebies. -- Gross, disgusting misuse of the word "ninja". -- "Master Instructor" If you're not already convulsing on the floor--you might not be, since some places take a lot more money for a lot less self esteem building, and some are dangerous--wait. The Apollo's ad takes up half a page. The bottom half is occupied by a legit ad for a legit school, teaching silat, muay thai, and eskrima. The other quarter is an ad for another McDojo, this one with the awesomely McDojotastic name, "Oklahoma Black Belt Academy". "Excellence in Martial Arts for All Ages" it says. There's a little circular thing containing a Chinese-looking (can't say if it's real) character. If someone here can read Chinese, it's the one to the instructor's right in the photo on their site. This has a picture of the instructor ("Master Instructor Jeremy McCaslin") kicking above his head (the same photo is on their site), with a transparent flag in the background. Below him is superimposed two kids, one punching and one blocking. "Discover The Champion In You!" Really, this place follows the same formula as Apollo's. Advertisement, saturation, flags, ninjas, Master Instructors, cardio kickboxing, etc. This one's situated inside Gold's Gym, rather than having its own building. Small-time operation. There's a bulleted list of what they teach (all of this is quoted and said in context): -- Karate -- Tae Kwon Do -- Kickboxing -- Tulsa's Most Exciting Cardio-Kickboxing Okay, so these are the sorts of things that are standard McDojo fare. "Karate" and "Tae Kwon Do" are very often just different isotopes of Mcdojonium. The kickboxing adds some degree of legitimacy in my eyes... maybe. -- Free Uniform With All Programs -- Self-Defense So they might actually offer something that's worthwhile, unlike Apollo's. -- Family Discounts Bring all of them in! More money! And then... -- Law Enforcement Discounts This made my jaw hit the ground. Are they trying to play the post-9/11 patriotism card? Or are they trying to say they have something worthwhile for law enforcement? I hope they're just trying to get cops to dump their kids off there. If they're trying to offer martial arts instruction for police officers, something's gravely wrong here. The chance that police could be fed McDojo bullshit is absolutely disgusting and dangerous. A cop who was spoonfed such tripe would get himself killed.

Oof... Greco-Roman is tough. The training is really intensive. I did a couple years of it, non-competitively, and got into the best shape of my life. If you don't mind doing three hours of intense exercise (running, weight lifting, and other things, in addition to the wrestling) five days a week and sometimes on weekends, and you don't mind being in close quarters with and almost groping sweaty men in leotards, give it a go.

I'm pretty well amazed at how much I've found, martial-arts wise, in Tulsa. It's just a matter of digging. For having around 300,000 people, there's a lot here, especially the more obscure stuff. I'm doing Taijutsu, and I recently (just now, when I googled "Lua Tulsa") a place in Tulsa that teaches Lua. I think I might go there sometime to try it out, then report what it's like. It's at the Broken Arrow Boys and Girls Club ( 1400 West Washington, Broken Arrow, OK 74012-6809), though they teach adults. Tuesdays and Thursday from 8pm to 9pm. I might even consider taking it up for a short while to get a feel. It costs an awful lot to join the Boys and Girls Club, though, something on the order of $65/month. I also train on Mondays and Wednesdays, which sometimes might switch to Tues. and Thurs. Conflict. It's pretty amazing what you can find when you look. A lot of these are at recreation centers and things.

I see a lot of people who do Japanese MA's, and a lot who do Chinese. The two, to me, seem to have very different esthetics. I don't think I've seen anyone on the board, though, who trains between a Japanese MA and a Chinese MA, or who started in one nationality and then trained in another. Why is that? And who has done that? Why aren't they ever mixed?

In all liklihood, he just delivered the pressure over a pretty small area. The pressure would be equivalent to the mass he's throwing at you, how fast it's traveling and how long it takes to transfer its momentum into you, over how much area it's put over. So if he hit you with a single knuckle with all his weight behind it at even a slow speed, and knew when to make contact to transfer momentum efficiently, you'd be in for something. Especially if he hit you in the right place.

I know that some people are for or at least tolerant of taking multiple martial arts at the same time, and that some are against it. I'm interested to find out, through the poll, exactly what the general consensus is on it. So, do you think taking multiple martial arts at the same time is good, bad, or relative? What are the main problems in mixing? I would figure confusion of techniques, too much to remember, etc. Personally I don't think technique confusion would happen so much as methodology. If you took MT and BJJ, a pretty common mix, I don't think you'd confuse a takedown with a shinkick, but there is going to be overlap somewhere. A friend compared it to learning multiple languages at the same time. If they're different enough, you might keep the words seperate but confuse grammar. I haven't ever mixed martial arts, and probably won't, but I'm curious.

I thought Lua was traditional Hawai'ian; I'm pretty sure it is. Kajukenbo is a recent creation based on several different arts, rather than something more ancient and "native".

That has to be one of the worst McDojo's in the world. The least the guy could do is have some tact. If you're going to sell garbage, at least polish it first.

I thought his Wing Chun was in actual practice in China for 2 years, then he moved to Washington and wound up teaching there at college. I don't know, though. And then he developed Jun Fan, and then Jeet Kune Do, like you said. Totally off topic, I think he's at least the baddest man of the last couple centuries, if not significantly longer.

I've been lurking on this board for a couple weeks now, and I finally have a question worth asking. I'm looking to start Budo Taijutsu soon. From what I understand it's highly similar to traditional Jiujitsu, which, incidentally, is another possible choice of mine. I've chosen to look at the Taijutsu place first because it's half the distance (surprising), its history is much cooler, and the instructor was more jovial and willing to talk when I called him. The jiujitsu place--and there are several in Tulsa--I'm looking at is taught at a YMCA and is about 16 miles away. The Taijutsu is taught from a two-car garage 8 miles away... a literal garage dojo. The jiujitsu instructor is a lawyer, the Taijutsu instructor, Julius McGee, works for TV Guide. So neither is a shady lowlife person. Since lots of fake Ninjutsu schools have popped up in the past, I'm wanting to make sure the Taijutsu guy is legit. He told me he understands my wanting to double-check things, and was more than willing to give me info. Apparently he studied under Aric Keith of around Seattle, who Google tells me teaches at the Cascade Bujinkan Tenchijin Cascade Dojo. I've seen ads McGee put up advertising visits by Aric Keith, so that has some evidence. Also apparently Keith studies under a guy who's studied under Hatsumi, and regularly visits Japan for the same. So far everything seems to check out for him. I'm told, though, I should check for certification from Hatsumi's organization to be for absolute sure. How does this sound so far? Is there anything I need to check on besides this to make sure he's legit? Assuming he's a good teacher, he checks out, the class has a nice atmosphere with safety precautions, etc. etc., I'll probably start there soon. Additionally, since I'm new to the Tulsa area and looking to start learning something new here, I'm going to start doing some kendo on the weekends.