Lupin3

ROTFLMFAO! Seriously, though, I am 31 and just starting on my MA journey as well. It's been a long time coming and in a lot of ways I feel like a kid again. I would think that if you can develop a good relationship with your instructor, the kids with higher belts won't matter too much. Good luck on your training.

Anyone? Buehler? Buehler? ...

What was Orwell's line? Something about that which is not specifically allowed is strictly prohibited by a (totalitarian) government?

Heh, yeah I think he believes kung fu used to be the best, but now its been ruined by Virtua Fighter video games... While you're there, read his article about the origin of Wing Chun and its relationship to the development of Muay Thai...it could be he thinks Wing Chun is the best MA.

This is just one article among many, many of which reveal the writer's obsession with establishing kung fu's superiority over muay thai. Why he would care seems to have less to do with martial arts per se, and more to do with a sense of nationalism. I found it striking (pun intended) that someone with his amount of experience and knowledge would fall into the whole trap of tournaments "proving" the effectiveness or superiority of a particular martial art. Why no article on UFC and BJJ? That said, his insights in the nature of wushu, sanda, and kung fu should remind us all that there are larger stakes in MA than tournament prizes. We live in an era when the oppression of kung fu practitioners continues in the country of its roots - just as it did hundreds of years ago. Unfortunately, it seems the communists are much closer to permanently changing the nature of martial arts there than anyone before them. The nature of the political and social conflicts from which the myths and legends of the origins of many chinese martial arts developed (not least Wing Chun) has not changed. It continues to this day.

What, no more comments? Its as if you guys think this post is too long or something! Geesh!

Yeah, I think that's it exactly. I kept a pretty detailed spreadsheet of several schools I've been looking at, only to find that for each strength and weakness for one school, another had the opposite. The most interesting looking schools were basically a push, with very little separation in scores. But my mind just kept coming back to what I saw in the Bujinkan... Thanks for the reply, aefibird!

This is a good post, Sawamura. I too am looking for a school whose credentials can meet my criteria, and its not easy. Why would someone want to waste several years of their life learning an ineffective martial art? Or anything else ineffective? Still, I think it may not be totally fair to characterize any school whose art ends in *do as a McDojo. Also, where do you think most the experienced Shaolin masters are teaching? China? Not since the communists and the Manchurians before them tried to exterminate them all. Many fled to Honk Kong, and from Hong Kong to the US. There are many excellent, world class schools in the US, but picking them out can be quite difficult for the less experienced. And even McDojos can sometimes have excellent instructors, even if they are sullied somewhat by greedy or overly ambitious owners. As to Systema, don't believe everything you read. It was created out of Stalin's anticipation with a war against the Japanese, a war that never really came. Midway through WW2, the Japanese invaded a part of asia that bordered with and was essentially controlled by, the USSR. Moscow responded by launching the most effective blitzkrieg-like attack of the war, eliminating the Japanese capability and intention of challenging Russia for the remainder of the war. The Russian army did this not with hand to hand combat, but with tanks. Also, one might wonder why the creator of Systema studied so intently the Asian martial arts. What would you really be learning?

I recently attended an open house for a local BBT dojo here in Atlanta. I have to say, it was quite different than what I had expected. It was set up differently than most schools I have visited, in that I was invited to observe initially, rather than jump in with their regular class. This provided the advantage of being able to observe both the students and the instructor much more closely than if I myself had been participating. Class began with a series of roll exercises as warm up and moved to a drill in unarmed defence against sword attack. The more experienced students were given shinais and made an overhead attack against the younger students, bringing their shinais down on the heads of the immobile and the shoulders of the slightly too slow. I saw a few take a pretty good whack! Nobody was physically hurt, but I suspect that the indignity of being whacked in the head by an upper-classman (or woman) provided a bit more inducement to train that much harder and more seriously. In fact, one of the first things I noticed about the class was that everyone, even those who appeared to have little martial arts background, took their classtime seriously. Not that they weren't having fun, but they were focused. After the students had a few minutes of this drill, sensei began to instruct them in ways to follow up the defence technique (side-stepping really, which I suspect is taught more as a way to remove the otherwise healthy but psychotic and deep-seated fear of someone bringing a sword down on their heads) with counter-attacks. These techniques began with simple deflections, moved to joint locks and then throws, and culminated in a bodily attack where the students threw themselves at the knees of their attackers, pulling them down by the sword hand and throwing them. Performed at full speed, this counter-attack would break the attacker's knees, throw them head first to the ground, and disarm them in one movement! I was actually somewhat concerned for the students being thrown at first, until sensei added (almost as an afterthought) that this drill should be performed slowly with care to avoid injury. Later, sensei gave everyone in the class the opportunity to peform a kata they'd recently learned. These kata ranged from techniques practiced just that day, to involved kenjutsu techniques performed near full speed by the more advanced students. These kata were complicated enough as to approach actual (though somewhat stylized) fencing in one or two cases. I have to admit, by this time the marketing techniques inherent in the demonstration of advanced students to complete neophytes was beginning to work, and I was feeling pretty impressed with the range and (apparent) effectiveness of the techniques presented. The open house culminated in an informal tea ceremony, where several of us enjoyed an absolutely delicious Japanese green tea and ate Japanese desserts. We gabbed for a while, with sensei remembering former classmates and students to an old friend who had stopped by for the morning. Three hours had passed by the time sensei ended (officially, at any rate) the open house. As I was late for a trip out of town with my wife, I had to leave more quickly than I would've liked, but I had been given much to consider. First of all, my fears that the members of BBT were all a bunch of hormonally imbalanced, socially maladjusted and overly aggressive personality types wearing black ninja costumes with masks and moving like some stunt-doubles from a 1970s made for TV Spiderman movie were totally assuaged. All the experienced students wore hakamas, and the newer students wore gis. Everyone was for the most part well behaved and reasonably well adjusted (from what I could tell, anyway) and polite to the quiet guy nobody knew who sat on the floor at the end of the mat watching every little mistake they made. Sensei himself was more relaxed and natural with the students than I had expected. He joked around with the class some and generally talked freely with the students and guests. He had quite a bit to say, actually. This included a short history lesson on ninja culture in Japan's past when I asked him about the three missing ninpo ryu from the list on his website. Ultimately, his point was that these schools are not sufficiently taught outside Japan to be taught at his school. I wasn't sure about that, I know a lot of other BBT dojos seem to take the whole ninja thing to heart. But for me, I'd actually rather stay away from it. I'm more interested in the Samurai ryu within BBT anyway, and I still haven't totally recovered from the 80's "American Ninja" crap anyway. In a more Japanese context it might be okay, but as with so many things pop culture has eviscerated any good qualities in my mind having to do with ninjas here in America. Anyway, to mercifully end this far too long post, I spent a long time considering what I'd seen that Saturday morning all weekend, and comparing it to other schools I'd visited. I'd try to rationalize the differences, enter data into a spreadsheet comparing several schools in many criteria. In the end, they all added up pretty well equally. And yet, my mind kept returning to an image of the fencing students, and a flashing katana. I hear echoes of the close of Miyamato's letter at the forward of the Book of Five Rings, where he signs off personally to me, to me, four hundred years ago. I keep thinking, what would Hatsumi Sensei think of this, or what would Hatsumi Sensei advise me to do about that... Anyone else have this problem? Because I'm seriously starting to worry myself... Anyway, Miyamato Musashi wrote that letter to me (to me I tell you!) four hundred years ago, and it's taken me a bit more than thirty to answer it. I think I'm pretty much sold on the Buj. Now only Jason Lau (with whom I have an interview later this month) can save me from the darkside .

Thanks for your reponses guys! I appreciate the comment about being comfortable with pricing. It seems like price is not a determinant in the quality of instruction. Some of the more established instructors (Lau Sifu) have prices significantly less than newer schools (though they do have rent to pay...). I think what you're saying is that its important to be comfortable both with one's own finances and that one gets a reasonable return on investment. I think that's good advice! Tomorrow I'm going to drive down to the Chinese Culture Center where the Shuai Chiao training is to check the after-work commute. It looks like I'll be going the opposite way of traffic, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. gheinisch, I am definitely interested in more traditional training. I want to learn what I learn well, and feel like I earned that belt or sash. In fact, I wish there were more Koryu type schools in the area - I'd love to learn Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu and Iaido! Lau Sifu and Master Lin seem traditionally oriented, though - as does the Budo Bujinkan Taijutsu instructor. I'm just a little concerned about the whole ninja thing... Thanks again!

Okay guys, here's my story: I've wanted to study martial arts since I was a kid, but have never had the opportunity. Now I have the time and money, but I'm not a kid anymore, so I want to make the best decision I can as to which school to join and art to study. I live north of Atlanta, and have found four schools that seem particularly interesting. I thought I'd list them and see if anyone has any comments about the school, instructor, or art. This is a difficult decision so any help is welcome First, a school that offers many arts: Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do Personal Defensive Systems Wing Chun Kung Fu Filipino Kali / Escrima Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Shaolin Kung Fu Shaolin Kempo Qi-Gong My main interests here are Shaolin Kung Fu and Qi-Gong, which are taught by Grandmaster Dana Allen Miller, Head of Family, U.S. Chuan Fa Association, 1992-present. He's graciously provided a week of free training, and I am certainly impressed by his teaching ability. The owner, however, seems more focused on money. The monthly dues can range up to $150/mo for unlimited usage with a 12 month contract. With a 36 month contract, the dues drop to $120/mo. Of course, they offer an impressive array of arts to study. Second, and I've already gotten some comments on this instructor, is Jason Lau's Wing Chun. This instructor is the real deal, having come to the US in the late 60s from Hong Kong and teaching almost since he arrived. His school is very selective about their students, which I appreciate. I'm a little concerned that Wing Chun alone may be a little too focused, but I do realize that many years could be spent learning this art and one still might not achieve something approaching mastery. I have an interview scheduled at the end of July. The monthly dues start at $80 for beginner training, twice a week. After six months, if they decide to accept me as a regular student, training is three times a week. Third, a local Budo Bujinkan Taijutsu school taught by Dr. Michael Macaluso, an authorized instructor by Hatsumi Sensei's Honbu in Japan. He lists the six non-ninpo arts on his website, which is fine with me. I'm really interested in Samurai history and culture (and Japanese culture in general) and less so in the whole Ninja thing. It could be, however, that he simply doesn't advertise the ninpo arts to discourage wannabe shinobis. Which is just fine. I have been invited to an open house this weekend. Prices range from $100/mo with a 6 or 12 month contract, to $150 month to month. Fourth and by no means last, I've discovered a Shuai Chiao instructor reasonably close named Master David Lin. Apparently, he was invited to teach here in the US for a company providing anti-terrorist services several years ago. He came from Taiwan. One of his students will hopefully contact me soon about his next class in August. I don't yet know what his pricing structure is. So there it is: Chuan Fa or Wing Chun Kung Fu, Budo Bujinkan Taijutsu, or Shuai Chiao. I'm really interested in traditional training and in learning the language and culture of the art I will study as well as getting in shape and learning to defend myself. I'm not asking which of these is best as an art, but any thoughts you might have about the arts, schools, or instructors will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Interesting comments about Yip Man. It seems like a lot of the attention here in the US goes to him, maybe because he trained Bruce Lee for a while. At any rate, your comments have really reinforced the positive view I had on Lau Sifu. Thanks!

Thank you everyone for the feedback! Wing Chun Kuen Man, I understand there is a "brand" of Wing Chun called "Traditional Wing Chun." Is this what you referred to, or did you mean a traditional manner of teaching Wing Chun? I appreciate your advice on Lau Sifu. I have an interview scheduled for next month, I'll post my thoughts on it when I can. Drunken Monkey, its interesting you mentioned Jiu Wan. Lau Sifu's website (http://www.jasonlau-wingchun.com) traces his lineage directly to Jiu Wan, and shows he and Yip Man training together under Chan Wa Shun. Yours is the first independent verification of that claim I've come across. Not that I for any reason doubt Lau Sifu, but if I'm going to dedicate the next several years (probably more) to training in a particular style and school, I want to make the wisest and most informed decision I can. Thank you again!

Anyone...?

I am looking at several possible schools at the moment, notably Jason Lau's Wing Chun school in Atlanta. When I ask around, people speak well of Lau, then change the subject to Francis Fong. I understand they trained with the same master, and are "brothers in Kung Fu." It seems as if Lau is a bit more traditional while Fong has more variety of styles in his curriculum (JKD, MT, BJJ, etc). Does anyone have any experience or thoughts with either of these teachers? Thank you for your time!

I'm new to martial arts and considering Wing Chun, specifically the Jason Lau school in Atlanta, Georgia. I've scheduled an interview for next month and am very impressed with the school itself and the students I have spoken with so far. Has anyone heard of Jason Lau? He seems to have a good reputation, though Francis Fong seems to get more attention - at least, that's what I've found so far. Thanks for any advice!

Hello everyone! After many years of frustrated desires to study martial arts, I am finally in a position to do so. However, I'm having a difficult time choosing a school. I know this is a complicated question, and I've searched this board for everyone's thoughts on choosing an MA and a school, but I'm still not sure where to look. I've been to http://www.atlantamartialarts.com/, where I've found several interesting sounding schools, but its difficult to know, for a noob, even after attending a class if it is a good school or not. So I'll list some criteria, and gladly take any recommendations anyone might offer, as well as any thoughts on the reputations of the instructors. I'm looking to learn to defend myself, as well as build confidence and focus. I definitely need to get in better shape. I'm also very interested in the culture and histories of the martial arts, and even the languages (especially Japanese culture - though not exclusivlely). For these reasons, I am leaning toward a more traditional school. This only seems to make my decision harder, however. Some of the styles I'm looking at: shaolin gungfu, karate, japanese jujutsu, kendo, iaido, aikibujutsu, aikido, bujinkan. Lastly, what is a fair price in this area? One school I've looked closely at charges $115+ per month with a 12 month contract for 3-4 class sessions per week, while others are as little as $45, or $70. I found one instructor who advertised free lessons for the diligent student in the Kennesaw area! $115 seems a bit high, but free seems a bit low, perhaps... Any suggestions you might have will be greatly appreciated!