HAYASHI

Kumite998 i study Hayashi Ha Shitoryu Kai Karate Do, im a 2nd Blackbelt and i have been training for approx 12 years since i was 11 years old i am now 24 and training for my 3rd Dan in April, actually i was due to grade in 4 weeks but i got chicken pox! so i had to postpone it. Well what is your background? Do you study Shitoryu (HAYASHI?)

My opinion is that full contact kyokushin stlye sparring is as as close as you can get to the real thing. What develops spirit and bushido attitude......testing ones self, pushing ones self to the max and not showing fear. You can not do this point sparring or semi contact. The only rules we have is no kansetsu geri or elbow to the head. If your arm breaks due to getting punched in the arm that is fine and you live and learn but if you grab their arm and hold it then try to break it of course thats not right. We are not brawlers,the fight is full of technique. I am not saying this type of sparring is street fighting but i am saying this is the only thing that is close to it at all. Yes we spar to full capacity at least two times a week no pads. Although kyokushin dont punch to the head, due to the in ability to toughen up the nose or jaw. They focus to the rest of the body, it is no doubt in my mind that a 100% punch coming to your chest is as real as a 100% punch coming to your nose, so we keep it all below the neck as it is not hard to adapt from a chest to nose punch (20cm?), the no punches to the head rule is mainly for competition any way, we do hit to the head in the dojo. not as hard as the chest though. The closest possible scenario that puts the mental pressure as well as physical on you. Do you know how many karate styles out there and other martial arts who spar that could not take a punch and never have experienced the pressure of somone trying to belt the * out of them. Actually some have but usually its on the street, great if you never get hit but if you do your dead or you pack yourself as you are not aware of the stress and nerves involved in a confrontation. I say make it hard in the dojo so its easy in the street becasue in the street the sensei will not stop the fight if you got seriously hurt.

Same in my club. No matter how similar the karate style is to ours, you go back to white belt and are evaluated on your abilities then we rank you accordinaly. There a 2nd dans out there who are nothing compared to our or other dojos 3rd kyus. So as far as we do it we evaluate that person regardless of there previous rank. Be wary of them though, i always ask to see there certificates, belts and grading syllabus to make sure. I have had people come in who have lied through there teeth, they were dismissed. Shotokan, Shitoryu, Wado ryu, Go Jyu Ryu etc etc........they all share katas with each other and are built on the fundimentals of all karate. Its a matter of having an open mind and doing what they say not what your old club use to be like. This is usually the biggest problem with people from other styles, if they cant adapt because they dont want to then we show them the door. The differences in them though can be hidden as some one said in this topic. So maybe you will pick the "wrong" one for you. Research the differences as much as you can (obviously you have internet access) Ask people in here for as much info we all do some form of karate. Note: Ask about the style to someone who does that style the worst thing you can do is ask one style about how another style works, no matter what they say in the end they are not full aware of it, they know factual information they would not have learnt the in and outs.

is that 70 US? if so thats very exscessive. In Australia 40 - 50 a month (30 US) some places charge 50 US a month but they are full time training centres with gyms and open all hours of the day. Depends on what your getting out of it though, if my shihan said that for 200 US a month i could train at his place everyday one on one with him..........* yeah i would. But if i didnt look up to him or believe in him i would feel that i was getting ripped off. Ask your self 1. How often do i train 2. How often could i train in regards to the classes run by your instructor. 3. His level and qualifications 4. How do you feel about your abilities are they improving or do you feel as though its a load of *? If your answers to these dont make you feel comfortable about the money maybe you are getting ripped off????? if they make you feel as though your getting what you pay for then hey thats great. The higher the instrcutor is the more it may cost to train with him.

In our dojo a gi top is a matter of pride as with your belt, it is a uniform and thats that. I dont see it as a particulary bad idea to wear a t shirt but if your gonna wear the pants and the belt you might as well wear the gi top. Some one mentioned removing the gi top to do sanchin kata to see the breathing, although not required it is a good idea for practice. I cant see no benefit in wearing a t shirt instead, if you cant handle the heat and do things to alter your uniform you arent gaining spirit. In australia it is extremely hot in summer 40 + degrees celsius most days. Yet we must wear our gi day in and day out, i find it gives you a form of accomplishment and challenge as the heat is throwing everything at you and you are giving it all you have. This to me is training with spirit. Putting on a t shirt is giving up and that is why you will find that most head of styles wont allow it as they have the same view. As a one of training event - ok is say. regular for summer - no. We actually run classes as a one off every now and then wear everyone wears there "going out clothes" and shoes to see how they would fair in a real fight sparring with what they wear out. Its amazing how much the clothes they wear restrict their ability and how many slip over in their shoes they wear especially the girls. so in the end my view is - training full gi, one off event - up to you. its a good gymick i think and some students may see it as that, just be careful that you explain that is for their benefit. also i know that the full gi is my opinion and as a traditional karate style/club i think its important so this is were im bassing my view, as for your club or anyones, its up to you and i think it owuld work but i think it may lower spirit in summer if you give them an avenue to weaken so to speak???????

My view on the flogged debate: Based on a street situation were the possiblity of further attack from another assailent. If you grappel on the ground you are dead, the best idea is to grapple standing up if you are in that close and take them down while you are upright whilst putting them in some kind of lock. If you strike only, thats fine but whent he distance is closed you must rememeber that 95% of people will grab each other once they are close, so if you strike you haev to adapt to knees and elbows and short range punches. My opinion is that you must combine them all. But if you take him down you must stay up and in control, the best locks are ones that dont mean you loose both arms and a leg to peform it! Other wise you are as incompasitated as him. Im not saying that i could flog royce gracie in a UFC comp...why....becasue there is the safe garuntee that none of my mates, no other person, no crowded pub or club or street is going to affect him on the ground. In the street you must be incontrol that means him on the ground and you up. If you get taken to the ground by them you must have some sort of grappling knowledge to defend yourself true but the key word is some. I train Karate under Hayashi Shitoryu but my personal instructor has a 1st dan in judo a 3rd dan in Kyokushin karate before he switched to hayashi. To me we get taught the speed and technical parts from hayashi mixed with full contact sparring and conditioning of kyokushin and the self defenec and grappling principals of judo. It is not about styles or striking arts vs grappling it is about being able in all areas so you can adapt to each situation. You face off, the guy goes to punch you in a crowded bar, you block it and strike back one punch then a knee then an elbow he grabs onto you as he is going down and you break his grip from you with a wrist lock whislt footsweeping him or throwing him and he hits the deck, as he lands you pull his arm over your knee into a nice lock and finish him off with a few hits or not depending on how far you want to tack it because you also have him in a lock of some sorts. DONT GO ON THE GROUND UNLESS YOU GET TAKEN DOWN AS YOU ARE OPEN TO ANY ATTACK WITHOUT DEFENCE. get a club (any club ) that teaches both techniques i beilieve prominent striking focus with self defence and grappling covered as an extra edge. Do you think that if Oyama got taken on the ground he wuold just keep punching? no he would grapple as well. And do you think that royce gracie would battle for 90min on the floor of a packed bar while he tried to lock you up?

Imagine that when a chodl does a foward roll they roll from their head and down their spine, with a shoulder roll (assuming you did a right shoulder roll) you should roll from your shoulder to opisite hip. When you roll and at the end when you rise up your left foot should touch first followed by your right. To start the roll it is ok to practice on the spot but the biggest thing about this roll is that momentum helps you a great deal from slamming your shoulder straight down into the ground! and if your instructor is teaching you properly, momentum is the only reason you would roll like this wether it be from a push or a throw or trip etc etc, as in real life rolling on the ground like a power ranger is not a good idea but im sure you know that. To do the roll. with 3 steps. 1/ Start with your left leg forwad 2/ take two steps (right leg then left leg) 3/ When your stepping with your left put your right hand in the air straight up. 4/ as you put your left leg down you are ready to step through with your right to roll. So swing your right hand across your body 45 degrees and out in front of you curling it around to your left hip as you touch the ground. Your left hand shuold pull back to your side as if you were elbowing some one behind you. When you step through with the right to roll the leg does not fully support your weight as it should be collapsing down into the roll and your left leg should be coming of the ground. The momentum of those few steps definatly helps. Try practicing the roll kneeling to get the technique of that part correct, best of all practice on some nice thick mats if you are just learning this roll. TIPS : You cant have fear when doing this or you will hit the deck like a lead weight, practice it enough in the most comfortable environment ie matts that are thick, then build it up from there ie: solid floor, continues rolls (4 or 5 as you do get dizzy!) Your fore arm shouldhit the ground first (i use the term hit loosly) and it should progress down your arm to the shoulder, maybe your going straight for the shoulder. This is a text book way to do the roll, find your meadian and what worls for you based on this advice then you will master it. Try doing each movement frame by frame so you get a plan in your head.

Thats my point, quality tuition and practice in a realistic form is garunteed to have some improvement in your abilities to defned ones self

Yes it would work, if it is pracitced corrrectly and realistically in the dojo and also if you cover all bases. For example - grappling and ground fighting is great and a skilled art but if thats all you do then in the street the last thing you want to do is to be holding onto a guy or on the ground with him because his mate will be stomping on your head. If you just practice kicks then in the street if the ground is slippery, the guy is in close, the area is confined they just aint gonna work. You need to cover all bases in the dojo so you can be affective in the street. Some one in this subject said train in here hard out there easy! how true well said. A technique is nothing but a text book move no matter how many times you go through it, you need to feel it, let them try and hit you and you take them down or out 100% then in the street you wont get overcome with self doubt and fear. Mental ability sets you up with the ability to possibly win as long as physically you can peform but if your mentally not prepared because of a lack of serious "fear management like trianing:=" then you are already half way beat beacue you arent using self defense in the street your just practicing it on the street, better to practice seriously in the dojo and peform on the street then the other way around. Why people think that MA would not work in a fight situation is beyond me, if you practice anything you will improve and if you practice fighting skills of course you are better prepared. Its like saying that a proffesional Basket ball player trained 7 days a week by michael jordan couldnt shoot a hoop?

well said i agree with both your comments. once again i hope i did not offend any one (yes i know i did thats what i mean im sorry for doing so) ill leave it at whats been said and although this topic has been dragged up so many times as people have said. it is true that there is different approaches on fighting systems yes, as far as im concerned though the point sparring system is designed for safety, entertainment and competition and whilst safety is of the utmost important i still feel that although point sparring has benefits that jyu kumite is really the only way to train properly. the benefits from point sparring help in some regards to fighting because a block is a block no matter who or why are trying to hit you but i think that jyu kumite incorperates all the qualities of real self defence, also i think we have all blured the line between point/non contact/semi/full there is different levels and then there are different levels of point and jyu kumite. i see jyu as the final step after semi contact free fighting after point after 3 step sparring and then after 2 step etc etc the block the punch the stance, the club, the ettiquet if you know what i mean and i see it as something that one should aspire to as there ablities improve. Thank you for your feed bacl (arguement or not i still find it beeficial to hear all your views) thats what a forums for, my view and your view not necessarily the same view!

guys, GKR in perth ok ill be a luittle more specific, they door knock to all the houses, they offer black belts to people and promise of giving them a dojo, this is not what i heard this is what i have seen, NAS? nas runs on karate orientated point sparring, of course GKR would dominate agaisnt some kung fu person with those kind of rules, how can different styles compete against each other in KATA/FORMS its hard engouh with diferent styles of karate let alone different systems of martial arts. Now i have seen the sheet they give students to show them how long before they get to each belts etc etc, one of our 1st kyu brown belts left and then decided to try it out, within 2 weeks they had him teaching at there dojo and offered him a black belt and club within two months. now you tell me if that credible? hey yeah thats great that one of our students seemed really great to them but if anyone came to our style from another they owuld not be walking in like that. I dont know how they do it in newcastle but mate in perth they are the scum of the martial arts community, ask any martial arts supplier in perth, they cant stand them and what they stand for as neither do any martial arts instructors with any credibility, do you ever wonder why the AKF doesnt have GKR in it?????????????? becasue its a non credibal style of Karate? also (non contact ofr beginners) yes of course as a learning stage we all must learn safely and step it up as we get more capable in the future, anyone who gets begineers to do full contact is an idiot and disgraceful.

I know that full contact is gloves pads groin gaurd in the matches but im talking about what you do in the dojo, behind closed doors, point sparring to me is bull * fighting, one hit wonders do not work even if you extend them an extra inch (please). light contact to me is points and free sparring that is done lightly. any point sparring that exist to me should be classified as light, unless you can use any array of strikes/grabs/throws etc etc, it is still points sparring that is not usefull, in terms of useful ness of timing and distance in regards to point sparring it is useful, but not in jyu kumite, real jyu kumite, not lets just hit harder but lets wack the * out of each other, like i said i dont recommed it as a daily event but something that you must atleast practice, in terms of there are no styles that teach no contact at all....well there are and ive seen them in perth, im not talking for the rest of the world. you can practice techniques on the spot a million times but until you use it and try it in a real situation there is no point. in terms of real im talking about striking techniques for one, not weapons defenceas we all know if you practice with a razor sharp knife and * up your dead or seriously injured, so we all know we cant do that in the dojo, senario scenes with arguements, drunks, drugies, etc etc also need to be practiced. look i agree that this is a never ending topic but to the drop kick who wants to meet me for a full contact fight at the airport do you do full contact? if so then why do you want to flog me? to prove that full contact is superior?then why are you challenging me if you agree and if you do point sparring well no offence you..............well i know what would happen but im here to discuss with you not challenge you, i thought this was a place for exchange of information, if my comments have offended anyone please accept my apology but i am just sharing my point of view.

full contact - i hit you 100% so that you dont get up and i defend with all my might as you are trying to do the same. street - same deal semi contact - same techniques but i hit 50% so we can go to work the next day and not the ER does this mean you defend 100%??? or 50% if you defend 100% you will think your better than you really are if the guys hitting 50% so we believe its better to defend 100% against 100% thats only when you will really know. i dont advocate doing full contact every night of the week but it should be done at least two times a week with the other nights semi contact (not non contact) to have the safety zone there so you can try new things without getting injured, if they work at 50% try them at 100% before you say they really work cause mate, they jsut wont if you cant test it at 50%

Kiai, you shouldnt say it, if i told you to yell you wouldnt say YELL!!!!!!!! same thing, its a discription, as if i said to you do your "death scream" you wouldnt say death scream!!!!!!!!!!!! right? this is not a lesson i know most of you realise this. we teach not to drag it out as then you arent releasing the air properly your controling it and extending it ie: delaying it. it should not be short or long it should just be out of you as quick as you can, it comes from your tunden (below navel) not from your throat so try not to say an actual word. just let it out, dont be embarresed either, it does help, it does work and needs to be practiced. there are schools in japan that practice the kiai for perfection as if its a technique,which in our view it is. it is not rage it is focus and control.

point sparring is a great for timing and distance, thats it. full contact sparring is the only way you can seriously prepare yourself for a real situation. you condition your body for full contact, you can take a punch, you dont bounce around with one hand pulled back ready to punch, you get in there and you hit the guy as hard as you can, you block or take the punch/kick/elbow/knee/head but. not just a gyaku tsuki. i am not saying we have not trained and/or practied point sparring but only for point sparring, point sparring leaves out to many points of fighting, it has some as i mentioned before but full contact has it all including what point sparring has, so why train in something that has 20% of reality in it and train in what covers 100% of reality. this is not knocking those who do point sparring for sport side/ tournament, fitness and general training this is just to people who do no contact or do no full contact. what do you think? (i dont want a grudge match i want a discussion)