miguksaram

Are we talking strictly karate katas? If so then:

Taikioko - Ichi, Ni & San

Wansu

Tai Ichi Gedan

Anaku

Gyakusei

Empi-sho

Seionchin

Neifuchin

Sanchin

Basai-dai

Tai Ichi Neko

Dahnan-Sho

Gopai-Sho

Shorei-ryu karate under Sensei John Sharkey

It might be fun if it would quit throwing you in a loop.

Another name for that movie is Master Killer and Return of the Master Killer.

You get them directly from the maker. Their address is listed in the original post.

IMO, IDC didn't pit the right fighters against Straight Up. Once Raymond was in there at the end, it was just play time. However, I will say this IDC's first match up in the night time finals was great. The crowd was loving it. You know when you get an audience all hyper during these mataches, it is a good one.

I think that is a good point, but you have to be careful that you are not teaching the wrong lesson. No one ever certainly means to teach this lesson, but I think over-reliance on that technique breeds the idea subconsciously that the instructor, or the better sparring partner was right merely because they were better at technique and better skilled.

I see what your are saying but let me extend on my personal experience and try to explain better. I was the cocky kid. My instructor, never scolded me for it, never even mentioned it. Everything was business as usual. The only difference was that we had a senior student, who was back from college, work out with us. At this time, since he stopped practicing for school, I was actually a higher rank, though I still considered him my senior due to the fact he started way before me but was gone just shortly after I joined. During the sparring session he paired us up. My mind set "ppphhhttt....this should be nice to send college boy back home with a spanking". Apparently my instructor already talked to him about the situation. What I didn't know about him was that he was the big guns of the school before I started winning top 2 spots in his sparring divisions as well as did some kickboxing on the side. This guy did everything but rip me a new bung hole. A very humbling experience to say the least.

After all was said and done my instructor gave us a lecture about how we must all remember that no matter how many people we beat, there is always at least 10 other people who can beat us. That we must keep that in mind and treat each person with respect because you never know if that person is the one.

So you see, I would condone telling the cocky student "hey you have an attitude, I'm going to set you up against someone who can whoop you". You would be correct in saying that in doing such a thing would convey the wrong message. You need to do it so the student figures it out for themself. A general lecture afterwards to reinerate the lesson, that you hoped they learned, is also a good thing for the rest of the class.

I definitely agree that all students at one time or another will go through this phase.

How do you deal with cocky students? What do you do if you have a student that is full of themselves and is very skilled?

 

We have a couple of students like that in our school and we were able to bring them back down to earth but I am curious how some of you deal with it.

 

Mo

Pit them against someone better in sparring session. If there is no one bettter then the instuctor needs to step up to the task.

This is more of a qestion of who can relate.

 

Has anyone found themselfs in a situation where all of the self control fails? I was in a bad situation about 2 months ago in which i was provoked into a fight with in individual who i knew was just talking trash. I know that i was the one to put my self in the bad situation the first place bc i prearanged our meeting. I hope to scare him a little maybe get him to stop talking about me. I had just tested for my 1st Dan about 12 months earlier and i felt an urge to prove myself ... to myself (if that makes sence) Well i met him there and at the point when things became heated i just snaped i came away with a couple of brusies nothing unexcpected in a fight he left with a broken nose and some cuts i was charged with assult and was on probation for 6 months his parents persued the fact that i caused excessive damege and tried to get me kick out of school

 

I am just worried that what i did wrong and that i might be alone in the way i acted

 

I feel like i let my dojo, my family, and all other martial artist down

 

after the incedent kids from my highschool came to my dojo and said they wanted to start lessions bc they saw what i did at that point i had caused alot of stress for my sensei from all the bad publisty (i live in a small town if you cant tell) if anyone has thoughs please tell me

Welcome to the wonderful world of being a teenager. Yes what you did was wrong. Then again what you did was be a kid (no insult intended). Would you have these same doubts about your actions or remorse for your actions if you never took a day of martial arts in your life? Most likely not. Most kids would have gone on a bragging spree. You seem to feel bad about it all. Which is a good thing. As you grow older you will learn from this lesson, hopefully the trash talker will to.

You are human and having a black belt does not make you some mystic holier than thou warrior, contrary to popular belief. However, having a black belt does come with some responsibility. You are set to be an example so you must now be that example. In the future don't let trash talkers get to you. If your sensei has any sense he will be a bit disappointed in you, but at the same time will understand your youth.

To be honest the real crime was the parents calling the cops into this. This was two boys fighting due to one talking the trash. They should have let it be so the kid learned his lesson.

It was. Some great fights at the tournament. People were definetly hungry for the money. Unfortunately the final matches were way to one sided for Team Straight Up. It was fun none the less.

yes a agree with some of the other posts if the judges know what they are looking at and sanchin is preformed well then you certinally SHOULD be given a reasonable score. But in tournaments today it seems that you have to be a gymnist to place, you should look for a really traditional tournament to compete in if you wish to do sanchin. Good luck.

Not true. Most of the tournaments have divided up forms divisons into 3 seperate groups, traditional (traditional base forms only no flips or rotations that would be past 360 degrees or inverted moves), open/creative (form can be creative using martial art techniques, but no flips, inverted moves or rotations of the body past 360 degrees), extreme (pretty much anything goes, flips, tricks, rotations past 360 degress).

Regardless if you do Sanchin in a traditional division or not. Even if you went to a strictly traditional karate tournament, you may still not fair well against karate forms such as Bassai-dai or Gopaisho for example.

Open palm strikes are used all the time as palm heels and in kung fu. I think the only real danger lies in if one of your fingers should some how get bent or grabbed...other wise its as safe or safer than alot of other techniques.

One of the best ways to use a palm heel strike is in the form of a "dead hand" strike. In short bring the stike downward as if you hand weighed 1000 pounds. It literally drops on the target. The best area is the chest. You can definetly do some damage with it.

Nicely put miguksaram.

 

It is sad, that no matter who or what, once something gets a bad image resulting from someone, can effect others without the persistancy to overlook the one.

Ahmen brother.

 

There are still some GM's out there who actually earned their rank.

 

 

I was speaking in terms of other payments-lessons-ranks-monetary contributions, on the way up to GM. It will be "like" "paying" for it-although, I know what you meant about KIM.

 

Nope, this is information discovered through perks of being in the "in-crowd" in the Korean community as well as being "allowed" to hang with Korean GM's. Yes folks being married to a Korean does have it perks.

 

I can understand that-but rumors tend to have some truth, some are exaggerated. It will have to be written or explained from the "mouths" of the people directly connected to Kim. Are these references? And somewhere, someone, should have a editorial/write-up on this. I mean, it needs to be posted other than here.

 

The references are from people who worked under him as well as people who worked with him in setting it up. The problem with writing up formal documents is that it has to be proven legally or you could be in deep trouble. I, for one, don't feel like dealing with thaty type of hassle nor do I think I will ever get written statements from the Koreans on it. Keep in mind if one looks bad publicly they all look bad publicly. So they tend to maintain their own backyard carefully.

[quote name="miguksaram

 

Yes' date=' the whole movement was actually started by Mr. Kim (I refuse to call him a GM because he bought his ranks)

 

Hasn't anyone?

There are still some GM's out there who actually earned their rank.

[quote name="miguksaram

 

Anyway' date=' Kim had a great idea to make money.

 

Does everyone?

Everyone has a million dollar idea. How many act on it?

[quote name="miguksaram

 

So he brings these kids over and stock pile them into apartments and they now become indentured servants. Kim opens up tons of schools' date=' rake in a nice sum of money and then WHAM!!! He declares bankruptcy and starts to close down the schools. Now these instructors are pretty much screwed. But weight...in steps in another Kim (not realated to the first) who buys the Sporex school and then cuts a deal with Ballys and the formation of TMA is born. They have a cookie cutter system and pretty much run you right through there. The teachers who were almost screwed out of a livelihood now have it back.

 

I had nevered hear of this-any links?

Nope, this is information discovered through perks of being in the "in-crowd" in the Korean community as well as being "allowed" to hang with Korean GM's. Yes folks being married to a Korean does have it perks.

MantasDaga now open its door to interested few on this fascinating combative arts , train and learn this art at the island of Negros Occidental, Philippines. Only a few are benifited on this art especially on its counter offensive tactics as base on Filipino Indigenous Knife Fighting Tactics

 

Gumagalang sa inyo,

 

Samuel A. Ibe

 

MantasDaga

Guru,

Could you give us more insight into the art and its history? What are the prices for the lessons?

Salamatpo

Jeremy

I am currently studying Hapkido from a guy that attended the Koren College you mentioned above. There are a couple of guys that teach at some of the Bally's locations here in Minnesota. He seems to really know his techniques, but it does seem that they try to run you through the ranks pretty quickly. It seems like they try to promote you every couple of months. They are pretty new to the Minnesota area, so I was wondering what their reputation was in the Chicago area, as I think that is where they started and have the largest number of schools/students.

 

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Yes, the whole movement was actually started by Mr. Kim (I refuse to call him a GM because he bought his ranks) Anyway, Kim had a great idea to make money. Import the teachers from Yongin college and open up schools across America called T-USA. He then got a lot of these naive kids out college and arranged green cards for them to teach TKD in America. Wow what an opprotunity. Especailly considering that TKD schools in Korea are a dime a dozen and yhou just graduated with a thousand people looking to do what you do.

So he brings these kids over and stock pile them into apartments and they now become indentured servants. Kim opens up tons of schools, rake in a nice sum of money and then WHAM!!! He declares bankruptcy and starts to close down the schools. Now these instructors are pretty much screwed. But weight...in steps in another Kim (not realated to the first) who buys the Sporex school and then cuts a deal with Ballys and the formation of TMA is born. They have a cookie cutter system and pretty much run you right through there. The teachers who were almost screwed out of a livelihood now have it back.

Now, while I respect and applaud someone's dedication to the arts that they would spend their whole college carrer in pursuit of a degree in it, it must be told that Yongin college is also known as a gangpae (gangster) college. Why? Because a good majority of the Korean population believe that if you are going there, you were not smart enough to make it in a real college. Now do the students from the college come out with some skill? Yes they do. Hell they just spent 4 year eating, drinking, sleeping and crapping TKD or HKD.

Avoid TKD HKD schools, learn HKD at an HKD only school, it's more than enough for self defense. I hope this sheds some light on your questions.

I would tend to agree with you 90% of the time. Most TKD HKD school are people schools that teach TKD but then took some HKD lessons in the past and are throwing that in as "extra" things to learn. There are some schools where the instructor is legit in his HKD training as well as his TKD training, but they are far and few in between. Then you have the schools ran by the Korean college students aka Young-in graduates who studied TKD and HKD in college in Korea. They are cookie cutter students who will teach WTF and KHA system. The trouble is that they are mostly belt factories and will mill your * right through the ranks.

"....who never really had those kicks in their HKD curriculum are most likely practicing Choi's Yawara system. Just a little foot note to keep people more confused than before."

 

Yes we are talking about the early 70's, when I was living in baton Rougem Louisiana. I had studied Hapkido under He Young Kimm

 

I have read somewhere, and I can't place it-that a ancestor/grand relative of the Takeds Family/Ryu had actually srudied martial arts in other Asian countries-per China. Thus :bringing back: Ju Jitsu fundamentals.

If I remember correctly, the Takeda clan did have their family system, but Sokaku also studied under other masters in the arts of kenjitsu as well as other jujitsu systems. I don't however, recall the actual styles and teachers off the top of my head. The Daito-ryu Aikijitsu was Takeda's hybrid art that he taught.

volley.....return.....volley.....return

 

anyone else as fascinated with this exchange as I am?

Only the true hardcore geeks!

There seems to be quite a bit of disagreement over interpretation of Korean history here, which is fair enough. You've adequately justified your reasons for believing the way you do. Kudos to you for putting actual research into it, and not just parroting something you read on a web board.

Thank you but I am still interested in hearing your interpretation of Korean history and how KMA plays its role. Have you done similar research or are your viewpoints based solely on what KSW has pasted on their site as Korean MA hitory?

However, I still contend you have failed to conclusively prove that what Kuk Sa Nim, and other Koreans have related about their knowledge of Korean martial arts history, is incorrect.

Perhaps exagerated or romanticised is more of an appropriate word to describe their versions.

I see no advantage to be gained by Kuk Sa Nim in being untruthful about what he learned, in the manner he learned it, and from whom he says he learned it from. KSW stands on it's own merits, as you have already agreed - (all except for your "family" arts remark earlier, which I'm not sure whether to interpret as "good" or "bad").

Ok. The family arts is not meant as a jab of any sort. It was the best way to describe what he learned from his grandfather. I will assume that his grand father had no other pupils outside of the family so he handed down his method of fighting to KSN.

Yes there is always something more to be gained by romanticising the art that you teach. For the general public, learning something that is 1000 years old sounds so much cooler than learning something that is 50 years old. Saying that it was handed down from generation to generation from father to son (or grandfather to grandson) is more mystical than I went to this school and learned this art now I'm teaching it to you. These are just ways to hype up what you are learning and in some cases, not KSW mind you, it is way to make a martial art something that it really isn't.

There were some other issues in your latest post I disagree with, but I'm willing to agree to disagree on those, but this one I have to take a stand on:

Then they are not Indigenous...BTW...let's look at that word...Indigenous- Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment or having originated in and being produced, growing, or living naturally in a particular region or environment (note: Definitions taken from Dictionary.com) If these arts were influenced by outside factors they are not indigenous. I can teach a monkey how to punch and kick. I am not saying Koreans have never fought in their lives prior to exchanging ideas with Chinese. What I am saying is that they did not put together organized systems of fighting, until later in the 16th or 17th century. Even then that was a manual used by military not by commoners.

 

Firstly, anything that is indigenous, CAN be influenced by outside factors at a later time, without disqualifying it from being indigeous. The key part of the definition is "Originating and living or occurring naturally". Being indigenous has no bearing on how something evolves.

If you have issues with something I said then by all means let's discuss them. It is the best way for everyone to learn. Also by your definition of what you just told me above, karate, kung fu, silat, arnis are all indigenous to America. So can we say that America started the martial arts?

Your example with the Chimp is therefore incomplete. Chimps always fight against other Chimp "tribes", and although you might not appreciate their "indigenous" methods of combat, they exist.

So then, by your statement above, the chimps are practicing martial arts?

If you teach a chimp how to kick and punch, do you not agree that those techniques would simply be incorporated into their "indigenous" fighting style?

Yes, but it would not be indigenous because they did not originate from their fighting style, it was incorporated.

Anyhow, I'm not sure how you can conclude that despite having to fight against foreign invaders and even amongst themselves for millenia before any alliances with China were formed, without putting "together organized systems of fighting", that Korea could have possibly survived intact after all that time (albeit as tribes and factions rather than a unified Korea).

This boils down to our definition of martial arts. Where as I look at the arts in more of a systematic way, more than a methodical way. In other words. I have a system in which I can train a group of men/women how to fight. The tribes of ancient times most likely picked up sticks and whatever was handy and started to fight based on instinct more the methods or systems. Since I can not prove this either way, I can not tell you that I will stand behind that 100%, but I would say I'm about 90% sure on that.

My interpretation of this part of Korean history, is that they must have developed their own methods of fighting and millitias for protection. Not only that, but it's quite possible that any particular skills may have flowed OUT of the Korean penninsula.

Which could be true. Keep in mind though that Korea was a hermit kingdom for a very long time and did not like to deal very much with the outside world at all so ideas flowing out of the Penninsula doesn't seem too likely.

One example of this that is becomming accepted, is the Koreans' skill in sword making. It is now accepted that Korean sword making predates that of Japanese sword making, and that this technology found its way to Japan where it was refined and perfected. Of course, this isn't a popular idea with the Japanese, but the evidence there suggests it.

Not that I totally disagree with you on this but what evidence are you speaking of? Now I do agree somewhat because it is well known that the Paekchae kingdom migrated over to the Ryukyu islands. With them they took much of their culture and craftsmanship. So it could be possible that sword making orginated in Korea. I would be very interested in any evidence that you could provide to show that this is true, as I am a practitioner of Kumdo and would love to have as much factual history on it as possible.

I think having functional kama is pretty important if you want to understand how to truly use the weapon. While I don't advocate practicing on people, cutting should be practiced on small branches, leaves, grass, cardboard boxes, etc. The kama is meant to slice using the curvature of the blade, as opposed to simply hacking. A lot of people do kata with the kama and simply "hack" at the air as opposed to manipulating them the way they should really be used. Practicing cuts are a good way to see if you are doing it right. Of course, a good instructor would help...

I would be interested in seeing the proper way of using them in a martial art related environment. The kamas, or not, in Korean where used to cut rice staks. It is used in such a way that the farmer would put the blade to the bottom of the stalk and then make a semi circular cut so that the blade would cut through the stalk. So unless you are close enough to the opponent to get the blade against the person's body for such a cut, the only other way to use them would be in a 'hack' type strike. How would you do it differently?

so they DID kick people off horses, but only because of Chinese influence? I'm confused.

~Heavy Sigh~ No..no..no....They kicked Chinese people off of their horses because they were bad influences. Haven't you been paying attention?

I am not speaking in terms on not striking. I am not speaking in terms of many not kicking. I am speaking in terms of high and fanciful kicks.

It sounds like the HKD that you studied was close to Choi Young-sool's HKD or rather Yawara than Ji Han-jae's Sin Moo HKD. When speaking in terms of HKD there is a bit of a dividing factor. Choi Young-sool studied Daito-ryu Aikijitsu under Sokaku Takeda. (Note: There is much controversy about rather he did study under Takeda, but that is a debate for another time ) Anyway, this art did not have many kicks in the curriculum outside of sweeps and low leg kicks. It was Ji Han-jae who introduced more kicking into the curriculum. So for those who do practice spin kicks and upper body kicks are most likely ones whose roots go back to Ji Han-jae's Sin Moo. Those, like yourself, who never really had those kicks in their HKD curriculum are most likely practicing Choi's Yawara system. Just a little foot note to keep people more confused than before.