Vyvial

It's an oooold tradition, before what we consider kung fu schools. When Sifus had a few disciples and that was it. Why become Sifus? I couldn't answer that question for them. Most would say that you shouldn't teach unless you know Biu Je and the other stuff will come from either your kung fu uncles, brothers or Sifu. Some may move to another town that doesn't have Wing Chun and need to teach students to have people to work out with. There are lots of reasons.

in many languages it does "but it don't matter" see we can agree on something Could you please eloborate on the different characters and meanings in Chinese?

I never claimed that Ving Tsun was a better pronunciation, just that, that was the preferred spelling for Yip man that's it but Wing Chun is pretty close for Cantonese and Ving Tsun is pronounced like "Wing Chun" V sounds like W and TS makes a Ch sound.

If someone's abdomen is too tight and not relaxed to absorb the strike, a gut shot can put many people down.

ummmm, your question might as well be "why not do Ving Tsun?"

In China it wouldn't be pronounced "wing chun" but in HK and most Chinatowns where they speak Cantonese it is or at least close approximation.

this is probably why This wasn't totally directed at you, since the thread is about my school, and ed parker, I thought that I would give some info on our method of Ving Tsun. There were a few students from Yongan before Hong Kong but I don't know anything about them. Anyone have any info? Drunken Monkey and pvwingchun: are you guys not basically making the same point? It's a good point but your kinda talking around each other. Many sihings were directed to train individuals in Yip Man's school, a few examples: Mak Po Sing started Moy Yat's training and Moy Yat taught Yip Chun and Yip Ching. I think, not that it matters for much, that the Refinement of the system was mostly just to organize it. i.e.: the dummy set was never an official form, and was always changing. It never became a "form" until his students were looking for ways to remember it and pass it on. Another example, it would take around ten years for Yip Man to pass tsui ma (push horse) uprooting stepping in Chi Sau and Gor Sau so he and Moy Yat organized it into a Chi Sau training process for Moy Yat's school in HK. There were some things that were "refinements" but I couldn't say for sure, any ideas? Interesting subject.

This is just my opinion but... That's a major exaggeration, Yip Man's teaching changed as he got older (like most teachers) but to say that he taught most of his students differently is pretty unbelievable. Yip Man is even more famous for not teaching and not touching his students' hands. When WSL was in charge of teaching at Yip Man's school, would he do that? When Moy Yat was teaching his sidai, would he do that? Yip Man, when he taught, treated people as individuals meaning people got the kung fu they needed when they were ready. He also never wanted everyone's forms and everyone's positions to mimic him, which could be why he didn't play his kung fu in front of his students. So there are many different positions and many different angles taught by Yip Man's students. He left the understanding up to them, many didn't get it, and some did. Also in kung fu tradition, once a student took on the title Sifu they could no longer learn from their own sifu, that is how it was in the early stages of Yip Man's school. Many of his early students became Sifus at an early age, therefore they had to fill in the gaps and finish their own kung fu or get it finished by their kung fu brothers. So there is another reason for all the differences. This wasn't so much the case for the second and third generation students of Yip Man. Then you look at all the students claiming to be grandmasters just because they happened to learn from Yip Man. Yip Man gave his blessing to very few people to become Sifus and had few Disciples (indoor students). So that means you have a lot of people who are not really qualified to pass on Ving Tsun claiming to have learned a different "secret" or more "effective" style in order to make a name for themselves and to set them apart from all their peers. If you look at the guys who really spent the time with Yip Man (10...15....17 years), you will see much more similar kung fu. Then look at the guys who teach very different styles of Yip Man WC or VT it's much more probable that they didn't really learn enough and had to fill in the gaps with other stuff, be it tai chi, boxing, judo whatever, they can't really say that so they claim to have learned differently then everyone else. Almost everyone claims that they were the closest and best student of Yip Man it's good for business. Look in your own school, what if your Sifu died and was very, very famous... Ok, now look at all your fellow students, imagine most of them now claiming to be masters and trying to look like they finished the system. They would have some very different ideas... then you have the guys at your school who can very well make that claim, to have had everything passed down from the sifu. So when we (as in my school) claim unmodified Yip man Ving Tsun, we mean that we teach exactly what Yip Man taught to Moy Yat which is exactly what Moy Yat taught to Moy Tung and and Moy Tung taught to us and what I teach to my students. All adaptation is on a personal level, we teach the details that are passed down and leave them open to interpretation by the individual. A VT sifu should be a guide through the VT system and not just pass on their own personal use of it. That is our meaning and goal in VT, to pass on the true system unchanged by our own ideas as it has been passed down by those who spent the time and paid their dues. ...just a few thoughts.

American Ving Tsun is just a public name. No meaning, my Sifu's school is named American Kung Fu Academy or just Moy Yat Kung Fu Richmond, VA. We are Austin Moy Tung Ving Tsun Kung Fu. NO we do not mix anything or teach a modified system as the American Ving Tsun site clearly states. Ving Tsun was Yip Man's preferred spelling of "Wing Chun" and yes it is different. Most schools who use VT spelling teach unmodified Yip Man Ving Tsun. We have different positions and different theories and very different energy than most WC schools in the US. All Ving Tsun schools are Wing Chun but not all WC schools are VT. I hope this helps.

just thought that i would put something into this. Our Ving Tsun "shadowless kick" or as we call it a "kick" is done without movement of the body. We don't give our kick away by tilting our shoulders or drawing it back (snapping) to get more power or anything like that. The foot comes from the ground where it is and goes straight to the attacking point. Very simple, it can have many different angles of attack and shapes of the foot. Also it has nothing to do with speed. Legend of shadowless or invisible kick in Ving Tsun: it was a ladies' martial art and the Ving Tsun kick would be hidden by their skirts, their body wouldn't move in order to kick, it would come from nowhere.

That would make you my sisuk, so thank you for the kind words to my late Sigung.

i have not read that book but i have been wanting to, thanks for reminding us about it

Firstly, this a silly question, and some of the answers are even worse. Ther is no such thing as a "better style"! It's different for every individual! I happen to believe that WC is the best for me and have proven that to myself for many, many years. If I ever found something better, I would do it and I have trained in many style of martial arts throughout the years and nothing gave me the freedom that WC has, JKD wasn't even close. All it gives you are fast hands (gunslinger style) with no substance and no stance to back it up. Bruce was with Yip Man learning WC for about four years. Still a beginner by many standards. He was barely past Chum Kiu, he never learned Biu Je, the dummy or any weapons! It's funny that the "style without a style" is falling apart. There is no good way to train it! Bruce could do what he did because he trained the basics of WC! He didn't make it better, he only filled in the gaps that were missing in his training. wc is not a style, it is a theory, a complete system of principles, once you learn Biu Je, the wing chun becomes unrestricted. As long as you follow principle, you can apply any technique in any situation. There are NO restrictions to the advanced wing chun player. There are zero rule in the advanced levels of wing chun. The whole idea of JKD is based on advanced wing chun theory. Real wing Chun is so effective that even Dan Inosanto became a student of my late-Sigung Moy Yat and called him Sifu. check out pics on this page: http://www.moyyat.net/brice/moyyatnet.nsf/moyyat?OpenPage The real reason why Bruce made Jeet Kune Do: http://www.moyyat.net/brice/moyyatforum.nsf/8178b1c14b1e9b6b8525624f0062fe9f/8bdd62d199774f3f86256d8b0027e2e4?OpenDocument In the long run, a typical JKD player will never be able to achieve the same level as a typical wing Chun player (who was taught correctly) because they will lack the foundation that forms lay down. If you don't actually know anything about wing chun, you really shouldn't comment on it.

There are many ways to get out of the contract. Read the fine print. Is it a funding company? If so, they will have a move out of the area clause usually about 25 miles, if you want to be dishonest send a letter to yourself at a friend or family member's house and use that to say that you needed to move out of the area. You could also look at the fine print and see what it says it offers, usua;;y you will find a loop hole. If it says you are learning a traditional Chinese art, make him prove his grasshopper style is legit. Also check and see if it says you will achieve certain things from the training, if you don't than there is an out. AND NEVER SIGN A LONG TERM CONTRACT UNTIL YOU CAN TRAIN AT A SCHOOL FOR ABOUT A MONTH TO SEE WHETHER IT IS RIGHT FOR YOU!

I use my secret hermit time travel kung fu to travel to the past and train with the great-grandmasters. Really! I also taught myself and my other selves kung fu by traveling in time. "Hello me, it's me, I am your Sigung and Sifu". It's a very good lineage. Also, I can kick past your head. Really!

oh yeah, don't bob and weave. Hands move faster than your body and you will break your structure and weaken your stance by bending your spine.

So you are in Kung Fu to learn how to compete? People have different reasons for learning kung fu, some want self defense, some want to get in shape, some want to compete, and others, such as myself, really want to learn the traditional Chinese art. When we spar, the last thing we want is to have it look like boxing, it should look like kung fu. I study Ving Tsun Chinese Boxing so the fighting and boxing skills come very easy, other arts take longer to gain fighting ability so if competition is a major factor, I could see how they would give you non-Chinese techniques in order to fight with. But don't worry about what we have to say, we're not there watching what you are doing.

what are you there to learn? boxing or kung fu? If you want boxing go learn the real stuff from someone who actually knows it. If you want Kung Fu well.....

are you serious?

I have no experience with Hung Fa Yi. Some things that set us apart: My school focuses on proper position and stance over techniques. We also have a constant pressure/forward energy that is alsways moving. We create our openings with tsui ma in Chi Sau and are very mobile in fighting situations. No matter what position or angle our horse stance takes we try to keep it rooted, by not comimg out of our horse when we step or by disengaging our hips. A precise tan sau combined with tsui ma will up-root an opponent and take center without resorting to some trick in order to take them off line. We follow the Kuen Kuit very closely and we make the Ving Tsun prove itself. We do not treat Chi Sau like sparring because that was not how it was done at Yip man's school. Chi Sau doesn't teach us fighting techniques, it's a conversation of hands about what happenes when someone enters your space. We will use cross arm sparring and long distance Chi Sau (full contact sparring) in order to train fighting attributes such as entry techniques and realistic fighting energy. This site has our lineage info http://www.moyyat.net

that's funny, i didn't notice that we had the same signature.

Here are some of my opinions about other wing chuns, good and bad... I have trained in multiple wing chun sytems and have played hands and sparred with many others. These are my opinions and a chat room will not change them so please do not get upset and try to argue, because i won't answer. If I insult your system I'm sorry and I could be judging individual instructors instead of the grandmaster's but whataver... Wong Shun Leung added fighting elements and their forms look very sloppy but they play with good energy and have good chi sau elements. Very Legit. Augustine Fong has good energy and looks "cool" but all the forms are very modified. They have three person chi sau? Also their cross arm sparring program is pretty good. WT is very precise with good science but lacks good energy. They has very weak Chi Sau since more time is spent on Lat Sau (Lose Hand) training and they have a poor concept of centerline (ie tan sau on shoulder line instead of center). Strong stance until they have to move it. I've only touched hands with american Wt guys and I hear that they are very poor when compared to their Euro counterparts. It's their ego that turns me off. Duncan Leung guys have good energy and good hands but a weak stance. William Cheung.... well. I can't even recognize what is going on there as wing chun. Very weak stance and they play with the hands instead of using direct Faan Sau. How did William Cheung, who actually spent very litle time with Yip man, get the super secret system of wing chun that no one knows about? Wong Shun Leung who spent about 17 years with Yip man, Moy Yat who spent about 15 years with Yip man and even his two own sons Chun and Ching were not good enough to even have this mentioned? Lo Man Kam has very good Wing Chun with good fighting ability. Police Kung Fu is pretty good too. Ip Ching has solid wing chun but I haven't touched hands with many of these students. Similar to Moy yat. Ip Chun has solid wing chun similar to Moy yat but relys on feints and tricks in Chi Sao as opposed to position and tsui ma. Hawkins Cheung has pretty good students. Nothing too different that I have noticed. YKS's side body wing chun is just weird, but I haven't touched hands with them so who knows. Tsui Seung Tin has very good kung fu students but the "mind energy" tai chi thing is kinda off. I won't tell you my system's weeknesses. All I will say is that Sigung Moy Yat taught exactly what he learned from Yip Man. There is no such thing as "true" wing chun but Moy Yat kung fu has no modifications or additions so I think it is pretty close to the source.

Ving Tsun is considered faster than others in my opinion because we have Chi Sau reflex training. We are the only one who truly do it, mantis and tai chi push hands may look similar but the theories and energies are completly different. Chi Sau allows the Ving Tsun practioner to find every opening in an opponent's defense and our Siu Nim Tao training, if done correctly gives the ability to strike at any angle with out pulling back or telegraphing (Ging Lik Energy). When you spar with a Ving Tsun practioner with any skill and knowledge of Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu, you will find that you cannot tell where their attacks are coming from. Our hands act on auto pilot, what ever happens happens. The attacks do not pull back in order to gain power because our power comes from our stance and we dominate the centerline with simultaneous attack and defense. Our stance is very mobile and should never be stationary. We're not faster, we just seem that way. I don't mean to be rude but I have never seen a Japanese stylist give any student trouble in our Ving Tsun family. I do understand that there are a lot of poor WC instructors out there coming up with their own version of Wing Chun... and they have weak students. Also, when you see video or have young WC guys come around and try to workout, they are usually beginners with no understanding of the system. Most of us who have been around for a while got bored of beating up on other schools long ago.

Pure Yip Man Ving Tsun as taught with the Moy Yat Method of instruction.

Hello, a new version of The American Ving Tsun Kung Fu Academy's Site is up and running. We are still working on our new video clip section and have some other pages will be adding soon. Half the site is about our school and the other half is about the Ving Tsun System. American Ving Tsun Kung Fu Academy Moy Yat Ving Tsun Kung Fu of Texas http://www.moyyat.net This is an incredible resource for the student of Ving Tsun, or anyone who is interested in learning more about the lineage, techniques, and philosophy of the Moy Yat family of Ving Tsun. Yip Man is widely regarded as the father of modern Ving Tsun, yet little is known about one of his closest desciples (and the youngest person to become a sifu under Yip Man) -- Moy Yat. For a better insight into this accomplished healer, artist, and kung fu master, visit the site. A must for anyone seeking deeper insight into the system.