isshinryuka

The Okinawan breathing introduced in Seisan kata in Isshinryu is traced to the hissing of cranes noted in White Krane Kung Fu.

Hmmm, disagreeing with your old Sensei and now disagreeing with the new Sensei. Trend?

Make them chase you. They will tire, drop their hands, then WHAMMO! - You get the point! The Sempai in our dojo is a Yon-Dan. She is about 5' tall and 95 pounds. But rather than her size being a disadvantage, she uses her quickness to confuse her opponents. I often hear of her being described as a bee - always buzzing around without getting swatted.

Exponential, How about some verses? Should have been the first place to look anyway. Where we can bow: Genesis 41 shows the people of Egypt bowing to Joshua at Pharoah's command. Genesis 27 has Isaac's blessing to Jacob stating that nations and his siblings will bow to him. Ruth bows to Boaz in Ruth 2. So it appears there is nothing wrong with bowing to a person when the motive is to show respect. Where we can't bow: Leviticus 26 1'You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the LORD your God. Joshua 23 ...so that you will not associate with these nations, these which remain among you, or mention the name of their gods, or make anyone swear by them, or serve them, or bow down to them. So God is saying not to bow to any god or idol. So if bowing is communicating respect and/or submission then we can bow to people, but not bow to anything that would compete with God. We are not to respect or submit to false gods. So an area that could trip some up would be the bow to the picture of the founder of a style who is dead. In Isshinryu, we bow to a picture of Master Tatsuo Shimabuku. Some would consider this bowing to an image and would refuse to do it. Others would consider it bowing in respect to our heritage and remembering those have given so much. I don't see as this bow as bowing to a false god or in worship in any way nor competing with Jesus in any way. We are responsible to keep our consciences clear. Spend time in prayer. Best Regards

1. Is it bowing = respect and worship or rather is it bowing = respect or worship? Exponential is probably in the same boat I was when I started karate. I knew how bowing was a sign of respect in Oriental cultures. I also knew that in my dojo bowing was also done toward the picture of the founder of my style. And some dojos required a bow to a hindu water goddess. So I really had to understand and ask a lot of questions about bowing in the dojo, how it was perceived, and how it applied. Because bowing can be a form of worship and not only do I not want to do it, I don't want it even perceived as worship. There is nothing wrong with simply asking and trying to understand. 2. No where did Exponential communicate he did not want to show respect. In fact, he says he is searching for a style and master. Pretty respectful to use the word master. 1. Logic fallacy in the first sentence. Called "begging the question." 2. Either you are completely contradicting yourself or I am just not getting your points. At the beginning you said, "But by asking the question "is it OK not to bow", you are asking "Is it OK not to show respect." Then later we get, "It is likely that you wanted to know if you could get away with showing respect some other way." So which is it? Either you accuse Exponential of being too prideful or you acknowledge he was just seeing if there were options to bowing. 3. Exponential is called disrespectful, presumptuous and egotistical for "just considering" options in an area where he is a complete newby? Pretty harsh. Could you examine your posts and conclude you did not exhibit those very qualities? This is a sucker question. We all know how many views there are on ki. We all know it is a hot topic. It is obvious why a Christian new to martial arts would have strong reservations about ki if the only explanations of ki he had been exposed to involved the mother earth power mumbo jumbo. 1. It really could be argued that the show of respect and humility is not fundamental to the martial arts. No time for detail here, but basically the Okinawans learned karate to fight for their lives, not to improve self or learn humility. The additions of the bow, self-improvement philosophies and humility thing really came in to fashion after Japan and Okinwa left the feudal era. 2. Karate used to be a go out and kill or get killed art. 3. Respect and humility can be taught without bowing. The bow is a wonderful tool, maybe the best tool for teaching respect and humility. But to make such a blanket statement about about how respect and humility can be taught is - egotistical. 1. You argue against yourself here. One could easily ask if I should use the same method of reverence for a man that I use for my God. 2. Ouch, a very bad analogy. When one considers the the origins of karate, the mystique of karate, the manner karate is presented on TV, and legends of karate, then I don't think tennis compares. Karate is frequently associated with Zen Buddhism. Tennis is not. 3. You compare bowing to shaking hands as if you have forgotten bowing is associated with worship. Shaking hands is in no way ever considered an act of worship to an Okinawan. He doth protest too much - Fat Albert (I think) Best Regards

Sauzin, You ended the last sentence of your reply to Exponential with, "You claim I make assumptions out of ignorance, please help me understand." But I think you are referring to my post? Not sure. Don't want to jump in if you weren't responding to me. Best Regards

Exponential, As a Christian, I do not have a problem with bowing to people in my dojo as it is meant as respect, not worship. However, I have read of dojos that require a bow to a goddess image prior to entering the dojo. I would choose not to train at that dojo. I think this is an example of what you mean when you say, "registering as a sign of worship in my head." Don't worry about responses from people that don't/can't/won't understand about your convictions. As far as anyone trying to define ki, good luck. That can be another whole can of worms. But the way I look at it, God made our bodies to do amazing things if we would just practice and learn how to use it. I think that is what ki is - practicing good techniques to the point of perfection - your whole body, mind and spirit come together during a technique. Some want to make ki mystical, when they do it, they cheat themselves of what they have accomplished through very hard work. Note that many of the responses to your initial post really lack logic and are quick to make assumptions. Don't get baited. For example: to suggest bowing has nothing do with religion is not accurate. Some dojos do get very involved with elements of Zen Buddhism, non-Biblical meditation and bowing to images. That is religion. Make sure you understand the instructor's philosophy prior to joining up. Sauzin's post is particularly bothersome to me. Of course, I always try to remember this is really a poor way to communicate as we lose so much when we are not face to face. So let's go through some of his points with that in mind. I don't think your initial post said anything about not wanting to show respect, but rather how to distinguish respect from worship. And when people do, you get cults. God meant the Bible to be understood and obeyed, not used as a book of suggestions open to interpretation. This is really bad. This makes me think Sauzin really got burned by a religious person or institution. Rather than respond to your post, he responds to a preconception. Your intial post did not indicate you had a problem showing respect. This response from Sauzin really reveals his hostility. To make such accusations based soley on someone's concern about bowing is irresponsible. Anyway, expect persecution (rational and irrational) for your convictions. I enjoy my karate and I have excellent instructors. That is really key no matter which style you choose. Best Regards

It is not the style as much as the instructor. I practice Isshinryu. The emphasis of Isshinryu is on speed, rhythmical combinations and focus of technique. We use hand and foot techniques to all parts of the body. But we incorporate judo throws as our instructor is also a Sho-Dan in judo. We also work ground grappling techniques because most fights go to the ground at some point. Our instructor has taught us Goju-ryu drills because he is also a Ni-Dan in that style. So in our dojo, we do a lot that other Isshinryu instructors don't (not better or worse, just different). I would recommend you visit all dojos that are within a reasonable driving distance, try one or two free classes, observe more classes, and talk to the instructors about what they teach. There are no bad styles, just bad instructors. The excellence of my instructors has made practicing karate a joy. Make finding an excellent instructor your priority. One more thing. If anyone guarantees you a black belt after paying so much money or studying for X number of months/years. RUN AWAY!

Basics are the foundation. The basics are in kata and kumite. Work your basic punch, kick and stance. Everything improves when your basics improve.

Increasing my fighting skill is the most important aspect of training in MA, for me. Modern times can still be dangerous times. One reason martial arts have so little respect in the U.S. is that many martial artists approach MA for excercise, rather than self defense. Kata is self defense. When I practice kata, I am practicing self defense. Anyone who practices self defense drills is practicing a sort of kata. It should never be kata vs. fighting skill, the two should work together, not in opposition. That a martial artist can't fight at all after several years of training devalues martial arts. But no help for that since anyone can order a black belt off the internet and open a dojo and not be held accountable for weak MA students.

Does this mean you are dissatified with your instructor? Start excercising your hip flexors. In two years your kick will be better.

I have been to 2 tournaments in the 2 years I have trained. One sponsored by a TKD dojo and the other by an Isshinryu dojo. Both allowed open hand techniques. Hetos, shutos, ridge hand and spear hand would all be allowed. Guess it depends on whose tournament it is. Read the rules and understand what is in and what is out. Some tournaments allow groin, neck, collar bone and kidneys while others don't.

Pick a technique that is easy for the judges to see: backfist to head or shuto to head. Kia for effect.

Why I started? - Son wanted to start playing sports and I didn't want to be the dad that stands on the sidelines. Had some friends that were black belts in Isshinryu so I thought karate would be a great way for me and my son to do something athletic together. How long? - 2 years this week. Why I still attend? - Really enjoy competing against myself and others to improve. Better shape - muscularly and cardiovascularly. Excellent instructors. Like knowing I am better able to defend myself and my family if need arises.

Regarding question #3: We have to have notebooks to take notes after classs. This way there is no excuse not to have documentation of terms or techniques.