pmh1nic

"The muay thai fighters defeated the kung fu masters not because of knowledge or secret techniques it was because of conditioning. The thai fighters were in competion form." That may be true in the ring but the vast majority of street fights I've been involved in or seen are over in less than 30 seconds and cardiovascular conditioning really wasn't a factor.

A long time Kung Fu practioner told me it would require 10 ~ 15 years to be proficient enough in Kung Fu to utilize it effectively in a self-defense situation. From what I've seen he's talking about 10 ~ 15 years of dedicated training and practice (not twice a week but four to six training periods a week), some of it pretty grueling. It's my guess that a significant percentage of martial artist (including myself) don't have the time or energy (and at 51 years old flexability and joint health) required to commit to this type of training. I don't know if it's "learn to fight...stay away from Kung Fu" or learn to fight, be prepared to make a very major commitment to learning Kung Fu.

I think the advice linked to in JerryLove's first post is excellent. Keep moving, keep the attackers in front of you, use an attacker as a buffer and inflict as much pain as quickly as possible on the closest attacker. A lot of non-martial artist, having watched some guy take on ten attackers who nicely line up in single file or patiently wait while the first attacker is taken out before attacking, think that taking on 3 or 4 attackers should be a piece of cake. In reality you're most likely going to get swarmed. It probably helps to have studied an art that has an arsenal that includes not just distance but mid-range and infighting weapons as well. A couple of 28" escrima sticks my help also .

The male ego and desire to "protect" my mate might cause some complications in the dojo if they train together. Add to that the sometimes close physical contact (ground fighting in the guard, bear hugs from the rear, etc.) that could potentially cause some tension especially if there are underlaying insecurities in the relationship.

"Sometimes, I don't feel like going to the dojo; but I always have a really good time when I'm there. My brain will try to make every excuse it can to not go, but when I get home; I think, "Wow, that was great!" This is true even for the instructors. A huge part of the battle is just getting there. Once there the blood gets pumping, you get oxygenated, the endorphins kick in and by the time you finish the workout your feel like you accomplished something positive rather than having spent the evening seating on the couch watching the tube.

kempocos Thanks. Your cousin probably knows Shihan John Olshlager the chief instructor at Nokado School of Self-Defense in Kings Park. He was and I think still is an art teacher at Brentwood High School. He may also know Coach Diaz who was my son's BYA football coach and a physical education teacher for a number of years at Brentwood (his son was on the wreastling team at a few years ago). It's a small world. Anyway, please be sure to mention my school to him and let him know his students are welcome to visit anytime.

kempocos Any student at the Brown or Black Belt level should be able to handle a fair amount of "controlled" resistance. I also agree with you that at this level the intensity of most training sessions should be relatively high (translate that to mean the students are breaking a sweat). None of my students are going to stand around and socialize during a training session. I agree with just about everything you said. I always came to the dojo to train first and socialize second, after the training session was over. Usually I could find other like minded students and gravitate towards them when the group brakes up to work on technique. The level and intensity during sparring is a sticky issue for owners of martial arts schools. My very early experience was at small school on Long Island where we went full contact from the start (white belts) and you sparred against everybody right up to Black Belts. Concussions, blood and bruises were the norm after those sessions. I grew up in NYC (Harlem and the South Bronx) and had probably 25 or 30 street fights under my belt before I ever walked into a dojo so the sparring wasn't an issue for me. But there were quite a few other relatively new students that never came back after their first sparring session. That's the extreme. The other extreme is not allowing any sparring. Unfortunately in our litigious society many school owners are going to err on the side of safety and avoiding a lawsuit (and liability waivers aren't worth the paper they're printed on). My school has been in operation for a little over a year. I've got one advanced student (Brown Belt - Karate, Blue Belt - Jiu-Jitsu) who has trained in various styles off and on for over 15 years. All of my other students are new to the arts. A couple of them are at the point where it's time for them to get a little taste of the intensity of sparring and experiencing some contact. I am struggling with different ideas regarding how to introduce sparring into our curriculum and finding the proper balance between realism, safety and not overwhelming them right from the start. Anyway, I appreciate your insight and comments. My school is in Brentwood, NY. If you have a friend or relative in the area that would like to check out the school have them drop me an e-mail (pmh1nic@hotmail.com).

I'm out of school, all the kids are grown and since I run the school nothing gets in the way . But I understand the time pressures and it can be a real challenge to "make the time" to train. I really as I've gotten older that you never find the time, you have to make the time. We budget our money but a more precious commodity is time and the need to budget it is as important as budgeting your money. kempocos I'm not sure at what level you're training but the amount of resistance applied needs to be moderated depending on the experience of your partner. In the begin when your trying to learn the rudiments of a technique very little resistance should be applied. After you get beyond learning the technique by the numbers more resistance can be applied. If you begin applying resistance too early or too much it actually hinders the learning process. Most of my students work full-time jobs, support families and are going to have a difficult time explaining to their employer why their nose or jaw is broken, they're suffering partial hearing or sight loss, will temporally need handicap access to the rest room because they got hurt sparring in martial arts class. Too often I've seen "light contact sparring" turn into an all out brawl. Strict control needs to be enforced during light contact sparring. I'm a firm believer that learning effective self-defense does require experiencing being hit and taking a punch. But what might be viewed as a light punch for a person that has some fight experience or from a person with a significant size/weight advantage can be very traumatic for a person with no fight experience. Toughening them up should be done very gradually. Add to that the liability issues faced by the school (I just renewed my school's injury and liability insurance so this is fresh in my mind) and I completely understand the stance of the instructors regarding limiting and strictly controlling contact during sparring sessions.

I would give the edge to Bruce Lee. Both are tremendous competitors but for the most part Chuck Norris trained to fight in competitions within the confines of competition rules. Bruce Lee train to fight a NHB style of fighting. There are self-defense applications to competition training but there are limitations also. Most of Bruce Lee's training wasn't bound by those limitation.

I think it's a trade-off. On the one hand the public promotion of the arts on t.v. and in the movies stimulates interest in the arts. On the negative side people (especially kids) approach the martial arts believing that it mainly consist of the very dynamic and flamboyant techniques displayed in the movies and t.v. In some respects it also conveys the idea that you have to be super athletic in order to learn and effectively utilize martial arts skills. In the end you have to take the good with the bad so overall I appreciate the publicity, especially the type that comes from classic acts like Jack Chan and Chuck Norris.

Goju1 It's true what you say, recovery time gets longer as you get older. I got away from heavy weight training because of the damage it was doing to my joints. At this point I do calisthenics, aerobic exercise, stretching and of course spend four days in the Dojo.

I know you guys are going to think I'm crazy (either for doing it or admitting it) but I just took my middle finger and my thumb, found both carotid arterys and applied a modest amount of pressure for about 2-3 seconds. Boy did I get very, very woozy. I WON'T be doing it again. Especially after reading the warning about JohnnyS about the potential for a stroke.

I'm 50 and have been training for 10 years. I'm convinced that the training, exercising and especially the stretching has helped slow the aging process. My flexibility and reflexes are as good as if not better than most of my friends that are in their mid-thirties. Stick with it. At our age the first year is the most difficult, especially if you haven't been doing any exercise. My advise to anyone in their forties or fifties that is just starting out is ... TAKE IT SLOW. If you overdue it right from the start you risk injury that at this "advanced" stage of life takes longer to heal.

I think ads need to be word so that the general public isn't intimidated by them and driven away. My ads discuss self-defense, fitness and a family oriented environment. I don't want to freighten away the very people that are most in need of self-defense training. A good number of my adult students are the parents of kids that I train. They bring the kids to the classes and after a few weeks or months of watching the kids train many of the parents decide to take lessons. Most parents are not going to subject their kids to abusive training so an atmosphere of intimidation would drive the kids and their parents away. On the other hand having stressed the family atmosphere I do understand that you gradually have to work each student to the point where they can begin to deal with and react appropriately under the pressure, adrenaline rush and fear they'll confront in a real self-defense situation. But I don't believe in "throwing them to the lions" until they've got some initial training under their belt and gotten over the adjustment of walking into a new environment (the Dojo) and what can be the very awkward feeling of learning the basics of the MA.

I don't think you can really develop the touch sensitivity required for some arts without training with a partner. Some aspects of certain arts require reacting to tactile stimulation. I don't know how you can develop that working alone or develop it properly without working with a knowledgable instructor.

"The only thing worse than punching a guy in the elbow is.... KICKING him in the elbow!!!!" Yes, I was sparring with a guy who throw a kick to my left side, I tucked my arm in to protect my ribs and he hit his instep on my left elbow (major Ouch on his part). In a matter of seconds the top of his foot blew up like a balloon.

Congrats! It's a testament to your strength of will, determination and discipline. I hope you will continue to enjoy the journey.

Can high kicks be effective? Yes, and that's from a JJ guy that only kicks low. But to be effective you have got to be very, very fast. That type of speed may be impossible for some to develop (and at 50 and having never practiced high kicks I'd include myself in the number) or requires a tremendous amount of time and effort to develop to the point where they can be used effectively in a SD situation. My guess is that for the vast majority of MA's high kicks are not option A, B or C in a self-defense situation.

Whether or not it's a money grab is based on the individual situation. That said private lessons can be a great way to accelerate your learning experience. Smaller classes or private lessons can mean a greater focus on fine tuning the fundamentals under the watchful attention of the head instructor. Rather than watching a technique demonstrated and then going off to work the technique with an inexperienced uki you have the opportunity to see the correct execution of the technique repeatedly and practice having while having your execution and errors immediately critiqued and corrected.

Idmc2469 I guess it's going to require finding another federation that is willing to accept the rank of the schools current instructors. I study Jiu-Jitsu and while there are similarities between styles of JJ there are differences (some small, some large but not necessarily better or worse) in the belt requirements from style to style and federation to federation. I'm don't know if the same is true with respect to Okinawan Shorin Ryu but the answer to that question is probably key in the answer to your initial questions. Please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious. Your only recourse if you think you're ultimately going to be short changed in your training is to cut your losses now and find another school that is more soundly established. Maybe someone else who knows more about what's available with respect to Shorin Ryu and point you in the right direction.

"Jui Jitsu has been getting pretty popular with the UFC getting to popular but people don’t understand Jui Jitsu take TIME to learn!" It especially takes time to learn and effectively apply the soft aspects of the art and controlling techniques.

The main uke for the Grandmaster is a 5th Dan BB. On numerous occassions I've winced in empathy as I've watched him get tossed around by the Grandmaster. I've had a couple of opportunities to "enjoy" the experience. Quite educational .

When I mention that I practice Jiu-Jitsu most people automatically think Brazilian JJ and that we spend 95% of the time on the ground. I guess you can credit the effectiveness of BJJ in the UFC and great marketing by the Gracies. The style of JJ I practice is probably 80% stand-up with 20% of the focus on ground fighting techniques.

I always understood Christ's admonition to turn the other cheek as an instruction not to retaliate when insulted by returning an insult. Jesus specifically says that if someone strikes you on the "right" cheek to turn the other cheek. For a right-hand person to strike my right cheek would require a backhand strike or slap not meant so much to cause physical harm but intended to insult.

I started when I was 40 and I'm 50 now. Who says you can't teach and old dog new tricks . Just a side note: I'm in better shape now as far as general condition, flexability, speed, reflexes, etc. than I was at 35. I recommend to anyone in the over 40 crowd not be be afraid to start training now but be very,very sure to start slow and easy your way into it to avoid injury. At this point I can do all the techniques and training exercises (including falling ways, hip throws, shoulder throws, koto throws, irimi, joint locks, grappling, etc.) and have them done to me. But if you're older it's going to take longer to work into these things than a 16 year old. TAKE YOUR TIME!