Well I hate to disagree but Bai He Quan is very much apart of Karate. It is one of the many Quan Fa that influenced the art. The main reason most do not readily see the comparisons within the Kata is because most do not have a grasp on the history of Toudi (Karate) nor the Okinawan's as a people. Karate is the first MMA if you will. The Okinawan people collected any combative method that they found useful from many countries and many arts. The indigenous art of Ti was similar in many respects to boxing. Muto or Tegumi as the Japanese call it is a grappling/wrestling art. Muay Boran or Siamese boxing influenced Ti by incorporating many of their techniques and applications. Later Chinese martial arts like White Crane (Bai He Quan), Monk Fist (Lohan Quan), Five ancestors fist and five animals fist just to name a few all contributed to the development of what we call Karate. The reason it does not appear exactly like one style or another is because it's not just that style. The Kata is a mixture or melting pot if you will of many forms of combative arts melded into one. The Okinawan people are not Chinese. They respected the Chinese but they are not Chinese. So there fore they will not fight like the Chinese just like they do not fight like the Siamese or the Japanese. Toudi (Karate) is an art unto itself. It doesn't look like White Crane because it's not White Crane. It incorporates elements of White Crane but it's not just White Crane. Just like it incorporates elements of all of the other influences. You can plainly see the elements of the different Quan Fa throughout the Kata if you do the research. hey MatsuShinshii: thank you for that. What you wrote is really interesting. You say the okinawan people are not chinese, would you say they are not japanese also, even though okinawan is a part of japan?( I might be wrong on that part) pink