Trailer_Ape

Nailed it! Awesome analogy! This was my thought, also, but I couldn't have conveyed it as well.

Ng Mui? I realize "Father" wouldn't be entirely accurate but she (imho) deserves a spot on the list, no?

Kinda goes both ways - I really don't put 100% faith in "arts"; "styles"; "systems". Kinda feel like EVERY one has their own style and ya find that out as soon as ya start bangin it out with someone and find ya don't move the same exact way as the instructor or other classmates, ya don't react exactly the same. It is all kinda (learned) concepts an mechanics but ultimately you're on yer own to do what needs doin to get the work done. I think certain TRAINING METHODS tend to produce better fighters but not so much different "arts". So absolutely! If a guy was good at what he was doing, I'll ask him to show me how HE is doing it. Not the Shorin Ryu, Kempo, Krav Maga, Wing Chun way but HIS way. The flip side to that is - he could be unstoppable, the best fighter the world has ever seen.... doesn't mean his methods are gonna work for me... or you. Although I bet if I train with him for awhile, I'll take at least one "nugget" of value with me. I'll find at least one "tool" that I wanna keep in my box

Not to get side tracked, but.... As for the practicality of traditional stances - I have a different view on the way they were meant to be used. I do not look at them as "stances" but rather positions you find yourself processing through NOT standing in. Not sure if that makes any sense but if y'all have practiced JSA, think of the different "guard" positions (high, mid, low, hanging, side, etc). Those are not so much the way you would hold your sword as you entered a dual but rather positions you pass through as you move and understanding the techniques that work well from those positions (or stances) is beneficial. I have seen a famous MMA fighter use a wide horse stance just not in the way one would think of when they picture standing in one and repeatedly punching an invisible target directly in front of their center line. As for the point of Martial Arts, I guess I consider the human a 3 part being - Body, Mind, and Soul. I feel all three have to be continually exercised and improved during our stay on this planet. I feel martial arts is a good way to hit all of those categories at the same time.

He kinda seems like the Richard Simmons of the martial arts world, to me Truth is - I don't know. The dude might be able to stomp me into a comma, he might not be able to take on my kid, I have no clue. I DO know I'm not a fan of his videos. Just something about his perspective that clashes with my path. Master Wong, love his videos. Fight Science (the black British guy), watch lots of em. Fight Tips (kid named Shane), watch a lot of him. Jake Mace, I skip it. This is just one Ape's opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Yea, fine line there. On one hand, you have the folks who are "sand baggin". They act like they have no experience, show up every now and then, just to dominate. I get what you're talking about. Knew a boxer, who had just turned pro, that would pick up cash in AMATEUR matches. He would fake a really weird stance just so no one knew had legit skills. Not cool. On the other hand, ya got guys that move around a lot, work stupid hours, and dig training different disciplines with different perspectives. I have really sporadic attendance, but I have sparring partners who live near my home. We drill an spar. I've been to a bunch of different schools, some for very short periods of time. What am I gonna say - "I'm really good at this stuff"? That is generally followed by catching a heel with your eye socket. Of course not, I say "yea, little here, little there". Figure it is better to be modest and then impress than to go the opposite direction. So.... I think down playing your experience is a little normal and appropriate BUT I agree that doing for the purpose of an "upset" is unethical.

Here ya go - I had a friend that raised fighting birds. I didn't realize the differences between dogs and birds. For example - a champion fighting dog is studded out whereas a champion bird is not. The reason is they want to horde that bloodline. Contrary to popular belief, dog fights normally end in submission not death. Cock fights, on the other hand, almost always end in death. So they don't want to put their champion bird up against a bird from the same super effective bloodline. I do not support animal bloodsports, so knew very little about this. He asked if I wanted to see the difference between a $200 and $800 bird. The larger one being the cheaper of the two. He put "boxing gloves" (shields their talons) on both and turned them loose. The cheaper (bigger) bird came in really aggressive, attacking str8 on with both feet. The high dollar bird swooped down (chest almost brushing the ground, wings pointing behind it) and went under the legs of the other. It then immediately threw a back kick (never turned around, both birds still back to back) and struck the cheaper bird in the back of the head. He separated em right there and explained - had they been wearing weapons, he would have just killed the other ones. So yea, I have seen animals exhibit impressive technique. Your friend is a sick individual. Yes. Plus I am pretty sure that stuff is illegal Actually no, it isn't. There are three states where cock fighting is legal (or was, at that time). Other states were allowed to raise game birds for export to those three states. I already said that I have never agreed with animal blood sports. In fact, I bred and sold American Pitbull Terriers and one of my conditions was that they were not used for fighting. I will say this, tho (and it kinda applies to our original topic of "meant for") - I have seen evidence, when raising dogs from "game" bloodlines, that some dogs naturally WANT to fight. I had one, raised from 8 weeks, properly socialized, everything. She was great with humans, wonderful family pet, but was happiest when she was fighting. No matter what I did to try to change her nature, she LIVED to fight other dogs. I eventually had to get rid of her because of how difficult it was to constantly keep her separated from other dogs. She would dig under my fence, go down the street, then dig under the neighbors just to get at their dogs. It got me thinking about people who love to fight and what disallowing them to would mean. My friend said you will see that natural desire to fight, in birds even more than in dogs

Must've somehow missed that, in your OP. In that case, I would definitely say shin over instep because I'd be concerned with causing more damage to the other joints (hyper extension) or what impact could do to small bones in an area where I was already experiencing issues.

I trained at a school, in Tampa, that held Shuri Ryu as its "core art". The head instructor's brother taught JKD, in Miami, so a lot of that bled over into our curriculum. We also had a Muay Thai guy that would come by, every week, and have us work on the things he was working on. Then throw in the fact the place was filled with cops an soldiers who brought a little of the work training with them. Apparently there is some Shuri Ryu governing body. The instructor once said to me "we are so bastardized, at this point, they refuse to recognize us". It was (back then) an amazing school. So yea, I think that governing bodies can limit a school's potential by requiring certain curriculum and suppressing nontraditional methods. One could argue that it also protects the student by requiring a certain level of standards but I tend to think that CAPITALISM will take care of that. If a school isn't "up to snuff" you simply find one that is, not expect some "authority" to make it be.

Also, if one did take the decades to master each of the individual arts that went into creating Kaj, I think something would still be lost - the synergy. One guy who "knows" (I hate using that word) all five arts wouldn't (imho) be the same as fives guys, each knowing one, meshing them together and identifying how each compliments or detracts from the other.

Bushido_man96 & PERS Said most of what I was going to. First of all, don't forget option #3 - the ball of the foot. Ok, my logic (take it for the 30 or 40 cents it's worth): When you swing a chain, the end of it moves the fastest. Your shin is NOT moving as fast as the portion of your leg that is further down. How much loss compared to how much gain (in regards to the hardness of an instep vs a shin) is what you have to decide. I've thrown bad kicks, using the instep, only to hyper extend the doodoo out of my ankle. Never had anything similar happen when kicking with the shin. Ball of the foot is fairly hard, well padded, and at the speediest end of the whipping leg. ALSO the ball of the foot can be substituted with the TOE when you are wearing a sturdy pair of tactical boots which I normally am It also protrudes past that "line" created by your thigh, shin, and instep helping it kinda get up in there if that makes sense. Someone brought up the subject of kicking above the belt and reminded me of what I was told at a school in Tampa FL - the only time you kick a man in the head.... is when he is on the ground

Animals use their intelligence too. Years ago we had a dog. For some reason the horrible dog of our neighbourhood used to bully our dog. Our dog would always come off worst in these altercations. Fortunately she never came to real harm. The horrid dog would for some reason cease it's random attack as soon as it was clear it had won. I think it was purely a dominance thing. But here's the thing. These random attacks always took the same format. Always the bully dog started with the same trajectory of attack, and always aimed for the same spot on my dog's throat. Then one day, we encountered horrid dog again while out for a walk. Once again it attacked from the same angle, going low and aiming for my dog's throat. Except this time it would be different. This time my dog waited till the last second, dropped to her belly, and grabbed horrid dog my the throat. For the first time, she had dominance over bully dog. She gave it a bit of a shaking down, before pinning it. Horrid dog was terrified, and after a long pause of my dog standing over it, pinning it down with jaws around throat, we convinced our dog to let it go. It legged it, and never attacked our dog again. This is one story. One story alone doesn't really count as proof of anything. But I think it was pretty clear that it was pure instinctive strength against strength. Here ya go - I had a friend that raised fighting birds. I didn't realize the differences between dogs and birds. For example - a champion fighting dog is studded out whereas a champion bird is not. The reason is they want to horde that bloodline. Contrary to popular belief, dog fights normally end in submission not death. Cock fights, on the other hand, almost always end in death. So they don't want to put their champion bird up against a bird from the same super effective bloodline. I do not support animal bloodsports, so knew very little about this. He asked if I wanted to see the difference between a $200 and $800 bird. The larger one being the cheaper of the two. He put "boxing gloves" (shields their talons) on both and turned them loose. The cheaper (bigger) bird came in really aggressive, attacking str8 on with both feet. The high dollar bird swooped down (chest almost brushing the ground, wings pointing behind it) and went under the legs of the other. It then immediately threw a back kick (never turned around, both birds still back to back) and struck the cheaper bird in the back of the head. He separated em right there and explained - had they been wearing weapons, he would have just killed the other ones. So yea, I have seen animals exhibit impressive technique.

There are forms in it. The school I was at had its own because my instructor's instructor created his own style BUT Adrianno Emperado (original creator of Kajukenbo) created kata, for the art, also. You'll see a bunch of different "versions" of Kaj, Gaylord Method, Original Method, etc. Sijo (Emperado) named NO successor so...... My understanding and experience with it is very limited (less than a year) but I was in it long enough to know it has merit. Unfortunately, it isn't really trained as rough as it used to be but what is these days, ya know. When I was trying to get a couple guys, from work, to come to class one of them watched a video on it and the phrase he used stuck with me - it seems pretty "to the point". There wasn't much filler, in my class, it was really just the art of hurting people as effectively and efficiently as possible. Not just in techniques, but midset, we were taught the time for de escalating and peaceful resolution was BEFORE they tried to put hands on you. After they cross that line, there was no "progression of force", you cracked the throttle wide open, your attackers well being was not a concern. High value targets were preferred. Fun fact - Chuck Liddell is a Kaj guy.

I get what you're saying, still see it a little different though. I realize making a fist has been the common way of striking and still is BUT when you make a fist, you're curling a bunch of little tiny bones (capable of intricate action such as writing) into a mass. The hand isn't naturally suited for smashing into stuff. At least not the way the big Curry horns on a ram's head are. This is my path, has been for as long as I can remember, will be forever BUT - I honestly think this is a path that leads us into an area we were not meant to venture. The upside - it further proves human ability to adapt. We have no gills, we make scuba. We have no wings, we make planes. We have a pacifist body, we slowly beat it into a hardened version of its former self.

Sorry it took so long to respond to this. I trained about 7 months of Kaj, before leaving Florida. I actually had the privilege of training under an 8th degree Professor who KNEW Professor Sid Asunchin and met William Chow. He was real deal. Former SWAT, the whole 9 yards. Everything he taught was based on the actual mechanics of hurting people who are trying to hurt you. Which is the biggest thing (as others already said) WHO IS teaching. A for the art itself, ya gotta take something into consideration before listening to my opinion - I believe ALL arts are "hybrid" arts. Unless you hop in a time machine and go train under Bodhi himself, there are outside influences in ANY and EVERY (so called) pure art. One thing I look for is how far removed is an art and lineage from actual field testing. I mean - my instructor learned this devastating technique from his instructor who learned it from his instructor who learned from a guy who actually used it. Make sense? The beauty of Kaj is its founders not only beat each other up, to find the weak points in their game, but then went to bars and got into brawls to test it out and this was not all that long ago. If you can find someone who teaches an art like that AND has themself been in a position where they had to fight (not spar) you can gain excellent real world insight BUT you still need to pressure test your methods. Ask them if they do. Kaj made such an impact on me that, after I moved, I sought out a Hawaiian Kempo school that I drive an hour each way to. Not all Hawaiian Kempo is Kajukenbo but all Kaj is HK. Make sense. My current school is NOT Kaj, but that is just a lineage branch. We are cousins, both my current school and my last school trace back to Mitose and Chow.