David Nisan
Members-
Posts
14 -
Joined
-
Last visited
David Nisan's Achievements
White Belt (1/10)
-
During the Chinese New Year holiday I visited and interviewed Master Wang Mingzhong 王明中(of Jiayi County, Taiwan), the headmaster of the Hanliu School. The Hanliu (漢留)was originally a secret society devoted to fighting the Manchu (=Qing) invaders and restoring Chinese (=Ming) rule. When they were finally driven out of China they settled on Taiwan, but retained their secret ties with other secret societies, and continued with plans to oust the Manchus. Since China was under foreign rule the Chinese rebels in Taiwan feared that Chinese culture and knowledge would be forever lost. They considered themselves to be the sole guardians of Chinese knowledge and culture and saw it as their duty to preserve and to transmit Ming (=Chinese) era knowledge for future generations. Thus, they called themselves “Hanliu”, which literally means “that which the Han (=Chinese) have left [to posterity].” The Hanliu then is not only a martial arts school, but a secret society which transmits various traditional disciplines or fields of knowledge. They are part of the (more global) Heaven and Earth Society, they have some relationship with White Lotus sects, teach secret handshakes, and secret, nighttime rituals. Maybe it’s hard to believe, but the Heaven and Earth Society still exists, not only in Taiwan, but throughout the Chinese world and members of different branches still recognize one another and maintain ties. Minxiong Township 民雄鄉, where Wang Mingzhong lives and teaches, is a serene little place, situated between the sea (the Taiwan Strait) to its west and the mighty Jade Mountain to its East. In it there are located General Zheng Chenggong’s (1624-1662) temple and the ruins of the Hanliu training hall (the hall was destroyed several years ago in an earthquake). Zheng Chenggong was the leader of last Ming armies and is considred by the Hanliu as founding patriarch. Due to Zheng’s status he is worshiped by Hanliu members throughout the year, on each and every important festival. Hanliu martial arts include the lion dance (which is the basic level of training, but which, as Wang Mingzhong showed me, is very martial and through which many secret martial teachings are transmitted. That their lion dance is so rich is not without a reason; in former times, because of the fear of Manchu reprisals—Manchu soldiers were constantly on the alert—martial training had to be done in secret. Camouflaging martial training as a lion dance was one way to do so), Mother Fist forms, basic hard forms, midlevel half-hard and half-soft forms, and then White Crane Fist. They also practice many weapons, some are obviously battlefield weapons (spears, halberds and long-swords, which seem to have been really transmitted by Ming soldiers; in some forms, one gets very close to the enemy, and then kneels, “plants” the weapon in the ground and points the blade in the direction of the charging enemy, so that the enemy actually cuts himself) and some are weapons for “civil” use like knives and sai etc. In addition, they also transmit battlefield strategy; they teach different battle formations and how to transform from one formation to another. Wang has even been teaching it at a local university. The Hanliu system is very much alive. Everything works. Wang is small in stature but very strong. He understands body structure, applications and the generation of power very well. His weapons skill and knowledge are impressive too. We did some fencing sparring, for example, Wang with the long sword (which is like a very long samurai sword) and I with the regular katana. He deflected my attacks and cut me multiple times very easily. We also did staff fighting, and he was very good with the weapon too. He is highly skilled in spearmanship too. In The General Tian Wubeizhi we explain how important ancestor worship was for traditional martial artists. In the Hanliu School, not surprisingly, ancestor worship is still very important. Interestingly, however, their worship ritual is in fact a gongfu-qi gong set, which also includes some of the schools secrets. So if you worship your ancestors twice a day you perform this set twice a day. That is, even worship is training, and this integration of the martial with the political-religious is a smart way to encourage and maintain the daily practice of all members. This is real gongfu, at home, with simple clothes—with real ability there is no need for anything fancy: The long sword (filmed by Wang’s daughter): The lion dance: On the Hanliu as a secret society (with an explanation of their secret handshakes):
-
"IMHO one must look beyond the martial aspects and look at the social and political climate of China in the 1800's. How much did the Okinawan's get from the Chinese Kung Fu Masters? " You are exactly right! This is exactly what we did in The Bubishi in Chinese Martial Arts History. We wanted karateka to have a better understanding as to what was important to their karate ancestors and why. We wanted them to able to tell, on their own, what of the old traditions should be retained, what should be let go of, and what should be regained. For karate was not limited to fighting, but constituted a unique field of knowledge, which included philosophy, ethics, and martial-medicine. And this is not merely romantic talk—the ancients greatly valued philosophy and ethics and sincerely studied them. You can say that philosophy and ethics constituted another aspect of self-defense, because they offered efficient methods to dealing with other human beings in society. Martial-medicine also served as self-defense: with martial-medical knowledge one could make a living and also treat and heal those whom he injured (injuring another person was a serious offense). But, and this is important for modern practitioners, it created a link between martial arts and China’s various meditative and qi-cultivation traditions. In other words, martial-medicine facilitated access to a huge filed of knowledge, knowledge which enriched not only their martial practice but their entire being. “back in the day even in China to learn Kung Fu was not an easy task. Kung Fu was very secretive” You are right again. And this is a proof that the authors of the Bubishi had intimate connection with chines masters. If they did not have an intimate relationship, i.e. if they did not really study with Chinese teachers, they would not have access to the knowledge they recorded down. “How much was actually put in to the Bubishi and how much was actually decoded or not decoded?” Right again! We cannot tell exactly how much of their knowledge was recorded down. Some of it was encoded, for sure, and we point out those sections, but not all of the Bubishi is encoded. And those plainly-written sections allow us to gauge the minds of its authors and tell us much about the art they actually practiced.
-
We find, then, that if one is committed to “Do”, if one wishes to pursue moral self-cultivation, then he has to aspire for an intense form of karate.
-
Thank you for your reply! I think that what you say is important on many levels, but maybe more so in that you made me realize that some people associate “Do” with a combatively watered-down form of karate. That is not what I meant. Karate should be intense, as far as I am concerned. And it was intense, even in times when it was naturally a Do-practice. Now let me explain: Do, has many meanings. In the (ordinary) martial arts context it means moral self-cultivation. That is the Confucian Way. Confucianism, from its very beginning, was not a philosophy per-se. It did include specific “philosophical” ideas but put huge emphasis on practice (and practices). In fact, it has been argued quite convincingly that that which distinguished Confucians from other early “philosophers” such as Daoists, was their practices (not thought). Ancestor worship, for example, was one such practice, and it had to perform in a prescribed and precise manner. It was part of the Confucian Way, the Confucian program for self-cultivation. Practice-based moral self-cultivation then was fundamental to all East Asian culture. In fact, it is one of its defining characteristics. Thus, and here I politely disagree with you. Confucius, or Confucianism, had created a space in East Asian culture for the creation of such practices as martial arts (in general) and karate in particular. Thus, we have no choice in the matter; we do not “add” or don’t “add” Do to karate. And neither did karate teachers of the past. For, as I explained, it was such a given aspect of East Asian culture that people absorbed it at home, at schools, at the local temple—it was everywhere. Do was, in other words, an integral part of karate form its very inception. Karate (fundamentally, a sort of practice) then was added to the Confucian repertoire of self-cultivation practices. And here we get to the pint of intensity: if your goal is moral self-cultivation you would want to create intensity strong enough to challenge, and continue challenging, your integrity, your composure, your spirit. And this is what I meant—MMA means that martial research is done for the purpose of defeating others. But if you care about intensity, techniques and methods matter less. You can see it in Aikido—its techniques are problematic for self-defense etc., but they are suitable for the creation of (martial) intensity. Best David
-
He is very famous, and I appreciate his integrity. Let me ask you two things here: is it possible that we are over-conditioned by our nationalist age and instead of seeing Chinese and Okinawan martial arts as belonging to one family we are to concerned with the nationality of those martial arts? and, you say that Karate is the father of MMA. I am not against it. But if the founder of karate were looking for a martial Way? Is it possible that they were not thinking only about effective ways to finish an opponent but also on a martial art that would help them achieve the Way? Merry Christmas MatsuShinshii Pleasure conversing with you!
-
Henning Wittwer informed me of a karate kata called “Pressing the throat” (“nodo-osae” 咽抑). Two videos on YouTube deal with this kata. 1)Practical Kata Bunkai: Reconstructing Gichin Funakoshi’s Nodo-Osae Throw 2) Practical Kata Bunkai: ‘Blue dragon strikes’, Nodo-Osae and Ebi-Gatame combination For some reason I cannot post a direct link. Take a look!
-
Thank you for your kind words! It’s very encouraging. I’m sure you have much to add too. David
-
MatsuShinshii Please let me know if my updated theory stands. Thank you. David
-
MatsuShinshii Let me first apologize. I expressed myself inadequately and impolitely. I am sorry. You are right. Okinawans arts are uniquely Okinawan, and Shorin-ryu especially so (I honestly think that Shorin-ryu was not as influenced by Chinese arts as Goju-ryu and Uechi-ryu). You are also right that Okinawan masters were practice. And they were also eager to learn and improve. Therefore, they did not reject martial knowledge (whether coming from Okinawan arts, Chinese arts, or Japanese) but embraced it and adapted it. Maybe I should put it this way: China was huge. At about 1900 it had a 400 years old martial arts tradition. And that tradition borrowed heavily from a 2000 years old body-cultivation tradition. Such an environment, with great many martial arts masters constantly improving their arts (for there was a stiff competition between them) and with access to sophisticated knowledge of the body, was conducive to the creation of first-rate martial arts. I guess Okinawans realized it. They did not have to adopt the entire Chinese quanfa, just borrow the principles and knowledge they felt they needed. Thus, Chinese influence was strong, but it did not dictate the actual form of Okinawan arts, nor did it preclude the practice of the older Okinawan arts. I find it very interesting that your grand-Shinshii did not join the Budokai. Can you say a little more about it? Thank you for you informative post and for making me re-think my ideas and improve. I appreciate it. With Respect David
-
I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm! I practiced both Shotokan and Kyokushin. But for the last 15 years only gongfu. And I actually think that karate resembles gongfu, and in many cases not very different. There is no doubt the Okinawans are people onto themselves. And there is no doubt that their original fighting methods influenced karate. However, if Ryukyuan arts were as developed as Chinese gongfu, then why did Kanryō and Uechi (among others) were willing to sacrifice so much to study it? And why did they stay in China for so long? And why even their students had such a high opinion of Chinese gongfu? Why were Kanryō and Uechi were admired for their ability, and their ability was the result of training in China, not in the Ryukyus. This was acknowledged by Ryukyuans/Okinawans themselves. Thus, the answer may be much more prosaic. When karate giants retuned from China they probably still used Chinese imagery. But later on, when Japan became hostile to China, and a distaste to everything Chinese became prevalent, Okinawan masters had to effect some changes so as not to offend Japanese sensibilities. After all, they were promoting karate on the mainland. That is probably the main reason that they re-named techniques and forms etc. with modern Japanese names. The interaction between Okinawan and Japanese martial arts has occurred, and is occurring, in a totally different period. It should be discussed separately. Here I’ll just say that Ryukyuans admired China, they wanted to be part of the Chinese family, so to speak. They have never shown such admiration towards Japan.
-
You bring up a very interesting point! It is interesting because Ryukyuans from the king to the poorest Ryukyuan peasants admired China. The nobility admired China enough to send its sons to study there, to receive (what the nobility considered) education of the highest quality; and karate giants such as Higaonna Kanryō and Uechi Kanbun admired China and its martial arts so much that they made great sacrifices in order to study there; and even their students admired China and its martial arts, for did not Miyagi Chojun admire the Bubishi? Didn’t he name his style after a line of the Bubishi? Yet you argue that imagery, which is one of the most recognizable characteristic of Chinese martial writings, is not often employed in karate. If this is accurate then we must ask-- if Ryukyuans (and later Okinawans) admired China and its martial arts so much then why didn’t they retain that imagery? And furthermore, it seems that this change (from flowery-imagery to non-flowery) took place the minute Chinese martial arts reached the Ryukyus. How can we explain that?
-
https://i.imgsafe.org/365b823e44.jpg Hi guys, I hope that by following this link you can see this beautiful illustration of a two-men martial drill. This two men-drill is taken from a newly published Bubishi (with permission from the publisher, of course). It was most probably created by Ryukyuans who were learning gongfu in Fuzhou City, Fujian, from about the middle to end of the 19th century. The writing on the illustration says: 青龍出抓手勝 qinglong chu zhuashou sheng Blue Dragon sends out his claws (lit. grabbing hand) and wins 丹鳳朝陽手敗 danfeng zhaoyangshou bai Cinnabar (=red) Phoenix [uses the] Sun-Facing Hand (=an upwards going attack) and loses This martial manual, Bubishi, was created by Ryukyuans who trained in Fuzhou City, Fujian, in the late 19th century. “Blue Dragon sends out his claws” and “Cinnabar Phoenix [uses the] Sun-Facing Hand” are names of techniques. Does anybody know of karate styles which still use these names? Thanks! [/img]