wcnavstar

Is it not quite nice, how the story of wing chun's roots in which they share their version of, feels the need to mention that their method of wing chun descends from the only man to learn the entire system from Tan Sau Ng. Where as the others only were given pieces of the sysytem. So is this yet another claim to the wing chun throne?

one more quick thing, adding in grappling or throws ect... is not part of improving the style. (Wing Chun is a complete art.) It is all part of improving the indavidual practitioner.

I agree, my post was not meant to be about wether or not wing chun could use some grappling mixed in. It was about the idea of not improving ones own understanding of the system. Besides most smart wing chun practitioners know how to apply wing chun on the ground which is highly effective; however the problem becomes how many wing chun schools actually train for ground fighting? You fight how you train, no ground fighting in your training then going to the ground would be bad. Although if you are a wing chun man whom trains among other things to use you wing chun on the graound, then it will be as effective as any other ground fighting system. But in the end its up to the user not the tools to determine the actual outcome of the engagement. All of that is off pic from the main concept of this post, if anyone whishes to discuss wing chun's grappling issues. Please start a new post and I will be happy to discuss it further.

Wing Chun is a thinking mans art, as such it is meant to be continuously improved upon. Now, this does not mean that a practitioner of the style should attempt to add or subtract theories and concepts or techniques themselves. Nor does it imply a weakness in the stlye itself, thus necessitating the inclusion of another art to fill in that gap. No, improvment in Wing Chun comes from continuously trying to futher ones own knowlegde and level of understanding, of the system itself. Too often there are those out there whom reach a decent low level in the system in which the average joe provides them no challenge. Then from there, the progress stagnates, their good, but they will never get any better. There is a huge difference between those practitioners whom fight with blinding speed, power, and lots of chain punches. To those whom move almost irritatingly slow with perfect timing and control, minus almost any chain punching. Timing and control are two of the most important aspects of Wing Chun. Those whom rely on the speed of their hands along with a succession of rapid fire chain punches are at a low level, of not just the application of Wing Chun; but, have also a limmited understanding of the real Wing Chun.

By far the best seminar I have attended has got to be Augustine Fongs Wing Chun seminars...

Shorin Ryu

Goju Ryu Sorry

Few people are aware, or perhaps they are, that the ability to generate short range power equal to that of a long range motion is quite achievable. A few styles which I am aware of that help their practitioners develop short range power are Wing Chun, Tai Chi Chuan, Pa Qua, Hsing- I, Shorin Ryu, Goju Rn shyu, and if anyone knows of any other systems which practice this type of power, please respond. However I will not be responding to defend my belief in short range power, seeing as it is quite impossible to prove anything of this nature over the internet. Very Respectfully Wcnavstar

Your question should be " Are there any people training day and night for nearly 30 years before becoming a teacher" Also, where did you get your info that says it took a Shaolin Monk 10 to 30 years practicing a style to actually have the chance to teach. Believe it or not, it is through teaching others that we in turn become better martial artists, with a good foundation of course. And a good foundation rarley takes 10 to 30 years. Not to mention that becoming a teacher in no way signifies the end of ones training. Many of the younger teachers which I have met in my travels still train with their instructors or with new ones... I think Americans and even others outside of Asia put to much thought into what makes a Black Belt. Go to Japan for yourself and you will see the worth of a 1st degree black belt...

Shotokan Karate has its roots mainly in Shorin- Ryu; which, is considered by some pratitioners to be the sister style (aka Rivals) of Goju- Ryu. The founder of Shotokan, Gichin Funakoshi, was a traditional Okinawan Shorin- Ryu Stylist. As well as a few other disciplines. I think that your best bet is to research the history and origins of Shotokan to better understand its present state in comparicon to Goju- Ryu.

Sorry about the typo.

How do you expect to learn any Wing Chun form an instructor whose techer was a video tape? Not to say that your teacher is no good, it just sounds like he should not be teching somthing for which he has had no formal training. This practice tends to degrade the purpose and meaning of the style itself.

Schools in Japan include the martial arts as part of the P.E. curriculum in High school, such as Judo, Kendo, Shotokan, Kyokushin, and Naginata which is polular with women. These programs are quite succesfull. However I do understand all of the well thought out points brought up in this forum.

I just want to say that I am extremely thankful for all of the posts thus far. I hope that everyone will continue to write on the best aspects of their styles. Very Respectfully wcnavstar

I have felt that over the past few months there has been too much slander and hearsay within the confines of these forums. While all are entitled to express their beliefs, I would be more than interested in hearing what it is that each and every one of you here on Karateforums loves about your chosen method of fighting, self- defense or sport. I have but one small request, and that is if you so choose to post a response, that it be a positive one, free from negative references to the other systems of martial arts. I don't wish to hear about your chosen styles superiority over others; rather, what is it that drives you to continue the study of your art. However, I realize that I cannot control the posts to this subject, I just hope that anyone who would post a response, would have a little bit of respect for my request. Very Repsectfully, wcnavstar

I am sorry to report that the people you see on T.V. in the UFC and the like... do not represent the average martial arts practitioner. As for examples I was talking about, they are only people I have met in my path to martial excellence. However I am afraid their names you would not know seeing as they have not yet been commercialized. Nor do they want or need to prove themsevles. You are more than welcome to continue down your path of ignorance to the ultimate truth. Perhaps someday you will awaken. This does not suggest that you will choose traditional martial arts. For yourself, perhaps BBJ or kickboxing is more your thing, or whatever you deem to be effective. But try not to let what you see on T.V. blind you. Then again, as in many things, I can tell this is a topic to which we will never see eye to eye. Until we can meet face to face and really discuss this. Perhaps even that would be hopeless. Still... Thats my take on things... Very Respectfully wcnavstar

The question should not be wether or not an indavidual techniqie from a paticular style would work against a skilled wrestler. It all comes down to wether or not each practitioner is able to effectivley apply their techniques to any given situation. Therefore the outcome is decided not by the style; but, by the indavidual. And before anyone says it, I would have to disagree that wrestlers are on average more effective, or that any other style is better than another. For me it is simple as can you make what you know work for you. There are many people out there who cannot make wrestling, BBJ, or MMA work for them and there are many that can. The immidiate draw to these and many other commercialized systems is the promise of an easy way to learn to kick but. Other more traditional systems on average will take longer to become effective, yet the skills picked up there will be more lasting. I do apologize for veering way off topic. Very Respectfully wcnavstar

The No- Shadow kick refers to a kick that is done at close range while the opponent is distracted by the hands. Thus the opponent never sees the kick and only feels it. Hence The No- Shadow kick... Very Respectfully wcnavstar

Power from a Karate punch originates from the front of the body and powered by the movement of the hip when used in application. The elbow is kept in to help support the punch and to generate what is sometimes known as Bone Joint Power. By keeping the elbow out, the punch will be nothing but muscle without any good stucture to support it. And those who use this method to punch more often than not end up throwing out a shoulder due to the fact that, punching with the elbow out sends the energy back to the shoulder. Although this does not make it the wrong way to punch. If you as the practitioner are able to make this type of punch work for you without suffering much injury, and you happen to be strong enough to pull off such a technique, then it is truly for yourself the best way to punch. Very Respectfully, wcnavstar

For many practitioners, Wing Chun can be very boring due to the fact that WC does not employ the shock and awe factor often seen in other styles. WC relies on simplicity, economy of motion, perfedt structure and depending on who you study with... the flow of chi. WC is among the most if not the maist scientific of the martial arts. There are only three hand forms in WC, two weapon sets and a wooden dummy form. Unlike forms in Karate which teach you direct application and mimic the movements of animals. WC forms develop theories and concepts and do not translate to direct application. WC does not mimic animals, simply because it is unlogical to immitate somthing with a different body structure than our own. Instead our techniques our natural in movment and never flashy or complicated. WC is also known as an extremly close range style, due to the fact that once we move in for the attack, we never back away, we only advance until the opponent is down. WC is based on the triangle for its techniques. The triangle is strong, anything that attacks the point of your triangle is easily thrown off to the side. I know it may be hard to visualize the triangle theory. But you will quickly come to an understanding of it in your class. WC does not employ high kicks. In the end, if you are looking for a style that will rack your brain more than the bady at times, then I say that Wing Chun is for you. Howver; if you long for flashy movments and physical exersise then I do not think WC is for you. The choice is yours, try the class out for a while and then make your final choice. Very Rspectfully, wcnavstar

To me the basics of martial arts, are building blocks for you to reassemble when your mind and your body are on the same plane. I agree with most everyone else that the development after Shodan is mainly mental. Shodan is the begining of the refinment of your techniques. As you progress, your understanding of how the movements work should be increased. You also learn how to adapt your movments better in actual application. You learn why your techniques work or don't work for you. you learn how to change them so they will work for you. Up until Shodan level, most students are nothing more than carbon copies of their teachers. It is the ability to break through the mold that has been crafted for you. Expand your skill and knowlege beyond what the teacher can give you. As far as learning new "Black Belt Level Techniques" are nothing more than combining theories and concepts that you learn as a begginer and the basic techniques. Dan level techniques are a modification of the basic movments of fighting. The biggest difference in the Dan levels is the increased and the rigorus study of the applications and concepts of all your movments. Very Respectfully wcnavstar

I was with a Kajukenbo teacher for three years and because of the circumstances I neve got to learn any kata. However I did learn many other things. I would like to learn more however about it. Very Respectfully wcnavstar

If you are being used as an "UKE" then most likely you are among the higher skill level students. As an uke you come accustomed to what it feels like when a technique is done right. It also increases your reaction time, tesches you how to fall and how to react. Your entire body becomes more sensitive leading to being able to feel what technique is being done. Enabling you to counter if need be. Also please note the spelling "UKE" not "UKI" Pronounced "u_kay" Very Respectfully wcnavstar

For several outlooks on the creation of the Wing Chun style, look up and read "Complete Wing Chun: The Definitive Guide to Wing Chun's History and Traditions" (Tuttle Martial Arts) by Robert Chu, Rene Ritchie, Y. Wu ...try Amazon. The book is basicly a bringing together of most of the well known WC lieages, and presents a non biased report on each WC system including the prespective histories of the WC style. You will be able to see how different the accounts are, as well as the similarities. I highly recommend this book for anyone researching WC Histories. Also includes a fairly extensive Wing Chun family tree. Very Respectfully wcnavstar

Nine years to reach Nidan (second degree black belt)