wilberbear

1. We knew how Taekyun looked. 1930’s newspapers on Taekyun referenced Taekyun to Muyedobotongji published 300 years ago. That has pictures. Aside from “what other techniques were in Taekyun”, “at least” the pictures in Muyedobotongji Kwonbub is solid to have existed in Taekyun. This includes the reverse punch & blocks. Those pictures were drawn 300 years ago. Whether poorly drawn or not, it is visible enough. Other than Muyedobotongji & street fighting (photos & pictures), Korea was not lucky enough to be photographed & videoed. Still, there are “enough” records visually. Also, Dukgi Song was around even from the 50’s. He had been exhibiting & teaching for a long time. There are his textbook, photos, pictures, videos. Before Song’s era? Muyedoboongji pictures are the best “reference” that Taekyun has. It is good enough. Taekwondo originates from YMCA Kwonbub which was recorded 18ki. This is the formalized version of Taekyun, the one on Muyedobotongji. Of course they should look similar. Taekyun techniques were historically described other than in Muyedobotongji. Dukgi Song’s techniques match what’s on Muyedobotongji or what’s been described. Most importantly, things like reverse punch & blocks? Always solidly existed. Kyuksul is not fake; it looks similar to Taekyun Yetbub. North Korea had Nalparam, another version. 2. For the reverse punch in Muyedobotongji, see number 7 picture on the left. One hand is in the waist while fingers point top. The other fist is punching with a horizontal fist. As for the blocks, they look pretty clear. I have seen 1922’s Funakoshi Book roughly. 3. Breaking was mentioned “while” describing how Karate “could have upgraded” & copied from the others. Also, Kihapsul, Charyuk, Kooksundo was never dead. Whatever decade you name, I can show you a newspaper record (like 30’s, 40’s, 70’s) talking such. Charyuk, Kihapsul, Kooksundo (originally known as Sundo or Sunsul) was never long dead. It has a record in any era. Charyuk has shown Breaking in newspaper even in 1930's. 1934 11 18 newspaper on Hand Breaking of beer bottle & roof tiles. http://newslibrary.naver.com/viewer/index.nhn?articleId=1934111800209102008&editNo=2&printCount=1&publishDate=1934-11-18&officeId=00020&pageNo=2&printNo=5012&publishType=00010 Kooksundo has shown Breaking on Japanese Fuji TV even in the 70's. Korean Breaking is superior than Japanese (as Oyama was not properly trained in Kihapsul but only imitated inferiorly). Korean breaks 15cm or 6inch rock. The rock is genuine, confirmed by Fuji TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqXmbg7RtbY Kooksundo, Charyuk, Kihapsul still exist even today. http://www.kouksundo.com/ This magazine article also talks about Charyuk & Kwangju Hong breaking 7 bricks. http://www.mookas.com/media_view.asp?news_no=10915

Taekwondo didn't exist in that name, but Taekyun & Yetbub existed. Taekyun is a wrestling game with kicking, & they also teach how to punch & fight called Yetbub. Similar to the structure of Taekwondo, they learned how to hit with any body part; they could do it; they just sparred in a different way. However, Taekyun & Yetbub were not really well known. So, like I said, it is likely from Taekwondo (Kwonbub) instead of Taekyun & Yetbub. Or Muaythai or Savate. Korean always has taught an art called Kwonbub (also called Kenpo) that is even made into a textbook in the medieval era. It was also called 18ki Kwonbub. It was mostly taught in the military but was also taught in the civilians. Among them, YMCA Kwonbub Club existed. This mixed with some Karate gyms to be Taekwondo later. So, Taekwondo didn't exist in that name, but 18ki Kwonbub existed even back then. http://muye24ki.com/muye24ki/muye24ki.php?cat=2&sub=22 Number 7 picture on the left has the reverse punch.

I am just making this bonus fact clear. Korean had all fist shapes including horizontal fist shapes as historically been photographed & drawn in pictures in sports (including 1920's Gitxaum) & in street fighting. Also, horizontal fist (pronate hand, the back of the hand facing up) is the natural fist shape. Vertical fist is the unnatural fist shape. If you stand dropping your arms down loose, the back of the hand faces front. This is because your elbow is not downward when you are not forcing it to be downward. Your elbow is rather sideways & outward. You can also clearly see your elbow crease (the opposite side of the elbow joint) being rather diagonal in angle instead of horizontally flat. The elbow is outside, not downward. Your pinky finger is connected with a straight bone to the elbow. This is why when you dig ground, you dig up & down instead of side to side. It is just that much more natural. The only thing Taekwondo (YMCA 18ki Kwonbub Club) got out of mixing with Karate gyms is pretty much the Kata culture. As for the important techniques, they are recorded even in Korean Kwonbub textbooks written & drawn 300 years ago including the reverse punch or the blocks. As for the civilian version Taekyun & Yetbub (even recorded in the 1930's newspapers, listing Taekyun techniques), they are more different from that version particularly with having more kicks (while still having the same rules, having hand techniques & so on) than what was formalized 300 years ago (recorded to have various kicks in Haedongjookji with poetry). Also, even Kooksundo, Charyuk & Kihapsul have always existed & have always been recorded in newspapers in any era whether you did homework or not.

I will just post what I posted on some other forum. 1. The people who are skeptical of Taekkyeon's modern format are the ones who didn't do their homeworks. Taekyun has been historically recorded in 1930’s Korean newspapers such as Dongailbo in terms of its references & techniques particularly towards Muyedobotongji textbook published in the medieval era. Duk-ki Song’s lineage also has always taught Taekyun to be “learning Yetbub (which hits with any body part including punches)” while sparring with wrestling with kicking. He didn’t come out of nowhere. Newspapers have recorded it. Medieval textbooks have recorded it. It is not that no one else other than Song knew Taekyun. He was one of the few who just bothered to teach & spread it. North Korea also recorded of other martial arts like Kyuksul, Nalparam, etc. I don’t know what you mean by Dukgi Song showing only low kick. His textbook shows other kicks. Also, early 1900’s Taekyun records recorded both low kick, middle kick, high kick such as a poetry in Haedongjookji. 2. I was not intentionally derailing the post. I am sorry. I was just glossing over something, then you challenged it. So, I am just feeding you information. As for the “reverse punch”, when are the photos from? So, what’s your point? That punch didn’t exist in 1922 but was added “right after”? The point is how Korean always had that punch like in the picture number 7 Joongdanpyunse on the Muyedobotongji link published in the medieval era. For Karate? Not so much in 1922. That page has “many punches”. You missed it. Let’s make a new post on this. Korean military had the ranking system that differentiated the ranks by the colors of the belts. Korean civilians wore white pants & white shirt (often without a ribbon in the chest). You do have to wonder where Judo’s “uniform” came from when it doesn’t resemble Japanese at all. Not to mention Judo being quite different from Jiujitsu but far similar to Taekyun wrestling (Taekyun learns Kwonbub but spars in wrestling with kicking) & Xilem wrestling. 3. No, Breaking wasn’t Kung Fu nor Qiqong. It was Strongman Feat that existed in Korea as well as even in Europe & America. I was “glossing over” while explaining how Karate didn’t have a roundhouse kick as well as many other things today which pose as traditional when they were newly added. 4. Kihapsul is not a long dead Korean art. Charyuk, Kooksundo, Kihapsul have always been passed down. They just don’t really advertise; Korea is just not well known; you just didn’t do your homeworks; Karate tends to avoid mentioning the history of Breaking introduced to Karate. As far as I know, Karate has square shoulder. As far as I know, when Breaking, you push shoulder not to mention the other body parts being different according to the Tameshiwari diagram in Mas Oyama’s book “Mas Oyama’s Essential Karate”. Also, as the links I provided say, Karate has low PSI. 5. Korean martial arts didn't die with Japanese invasion. They are just not well known. They have always existed & have always been active & have always been recorded even up to 1930's. Kyuksul was never lost in time. Nalparam, Taekyun Yetbub (Taekyun Yetbub is Kwonbub recorded in Muyedobotongji), Kyuksul always existed both in North Korea & South Korea in many different names in any era including 1930's. http://newslibrary.naver.com/viewer/...lishType=00020 The important part is that this newspaper is from 1930 04 03, & it clearly talks about Taekyun & Yetbub which is Kwonbub. The same goes for Nalparam, Kyuksul, etc other names. Also, it listed the names of the Taekyun Yetbub techniques which are from Muyedobotongji. Whether you can read Korean or not, I am just telling you that's the fact & there are proofs published 100 years ago. Korea is not well known; those facts are not well known; those sports are not well known; but they have always been recorded. The same people doubting Taekyun's format being real or not also didn't read this newspaper. They didn't do homeworks. 6. Neither Taekyun (including Yetbub) nor Taekwondo really emphasize kicking nor slapping. Historical records recorded Subak to be Baekta & Kwonbub. Just like the name Kwonbub means "fist way" in a generic word while still kicking, Subak also hit with any body part including punches. They learn the whole sets; they just spar in a particular way.

This news is taken rather well. I came across these threads while googling, & just wanted to inform the correct facts. Thought there might be more resistance despite the references & links because of being Karate forum as a sense of loyalty over facts.

Also, using a dog or a cow as a target for Breaking Game has nothing to do with whether Breaking Game is originally from Strongman Feat (Kihapsul) or fighting game. It is a logical fallacy “affirming the consequent” pretending as if “if A then B. B. Hence, A” which is false. Aside from, of course, the irrelevances as Kihapsul has always had Breaking Game (including Hand Breaking) "anyway" regardless of how you claim its origin. Not to mention how Korean always has had many different Fight Games anyway. It is just that the facts "happen to be" that the origin of Breaking Game is from Strongman Feat, not from fighting game. Just like fighting games can create powerful strikes (apparently), Strongman Feat games can also create powerful strikes. Such creation of techniques is what sports do. Not to mention how striking has not been done in a special way but done the same way as a good pushing (leg leverage through shoulder striking through with speed & power pouring over the target) in Korea, similar to pro-wrestling. Big Show has shown 1809 PSI for his punches. How the things are "anyway" & what you claim with your "thinking" are 2 different things.

It was obvious from how Karate has weak strikes & how Karate hits differently from Tameshiwari. Many people can notice how Tameshiwari seems to hit hard, but when they actually get to see Karate, it doesn't seem as powerful as Tameshiwari. That's because they strike in different ways. https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/39469/straight-dope-the-physics-of-punching-someone-in-the-face "Martial arts punches generally involve much less force than those in boxing. A study of 12 karate black belts showed so-called reverse punches delivered an average force of 325 pounds, with the strongest measuring 412 pounds. Short-range power punches averaged 178 pounds." If you did not learn Tameshiwari but learned only Karate, your strikes are nowhere as good as Tameshiwari. Karate hits weakly. https://books.google.ca/books?id=EMlXzpB4IpcC&pg=PA155&dq=strength+necessary+for+the+successful+performance+of+Tameshiwari+is+achieved+by+marshalling+all+of+the+body+reserves&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=strength%20necessary%20for%20the%20successful%20performance%20of%20Tameshiwari%20is%20achieved%20by%20marshalling%20all%20of%20the%20body%20reserves&f=false https://books.google.ca/books?id=EMlXzpB4IpcC&pg=PA156&dq=Speed+is+dependent+upon+many+things+including+muscular+strength,+flexibility,+bending+and+stretching+of+the+hips,+and+quick+reflexes&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=Speed%20is%20dependent%20upon%20many%20things%20including%20muscular%20strength%2C%20flexibility%2C%20bending%20and%20stretching%20of%20the%20hips%2C%20and%20quick%20reflexes&f=false Quoting from Oyama’s book “Mas Oyama’s Essential Karate”, “the strength necessary for the successful performance of Tameshiwari is achieved by marshalling all of the body reserves. Especially important is power generated up through the legs”. Quoting from the same book, “the two most important things in Tameshiwari are power and speed. Speed is dependent upon many things including muscular strength, flexibility, bending and stretching of the hips, and quick reflexes.” So, even Oyama says the same. Hard hitting is about “leg leverage & speed”. It was obvious. Why would it be less speed when muscles use power, contract, “move it”. Also, leg leverage for mass. We went over how dangling doesn’t add to mass in motion. According to how Karate does even today as well as the historical records like textbooks, Karate has always been like Kung Fu. Both Kung Fu & Karate “do not move shoulders” nor “lean legs forward” nor “flip foot forward”. They don’t have the leg leverage nor the proper shoulder power. Karate’s shoulders are square & stationary. Tameshiwari does not hit the same way as Karate in none of the traits: speed nor leg leverage through push-shoulder.

As for whether Kooksundo existed in Korea or not, there are also historical records & newspaper records on Sundo & Sunsul. Kooksundo went by the name Sundo before adding the word Kook. There are 1900~1940 old Korean newspaper records on Sundo just like there are 1900~1940 old Korean newspaper records on Kihapsul (aside from the 1900~1940 Western records on Kiai Jutsu provided by Graham Noble).

So, Breaking Game originally wasn't from any fighting game but from Strongman Feat not that different from circus (gymnastics is different from circus). Even the Western World had it. Such just became extinct after Karate took its spot for Breaking. In Korea, however, Kooksundo, Charyuk, Kihapsul continued even up to today. " Many years back, in the later part of the nineteenth century, there was a strongman called Sebastian Miller, who was known as "The Rock Breaker". A report in the "Cambridge Jeffersonian" newspaper (Ohio) of 1 March 1899 stated that "A strongman has turned up in Philadelphia. He calls himself Sebastian Miller and a distinguished gathering of physicians and professors witnessed some of his feats of strength in the Pennsylvania hospital a day ago. "Miller stripped to the waist in order that the physicians might see the workings of his gigantic muscles and he stepped to a light pine table on which were placed several cobblestones. "A large stone was held in place and Miller, giving three powerful swings with his right arm, brought his fist down on the stone. The first blow cracked it, the second broke it, and the third shattered it into bits. In doing this Miller wrapped a piece of cloth around his hand to protect it from being cut. "But Miller's strength is not all in his arms. With a harness he has raised 3,500 pounds, and with his hands he can lift 1,800 pounds. With three successive blows of his fist he has broken a block of Quincy granite 5 feet long, 4 feet broad, and 6 inches thick". "His method" wrote David Webster, "was to lay a stone on a table and hold another a little above it, then smash down on the top one (with his bare fist), the impact breaking the weaker stone". A 1900 article in Bernar McFadden's "Physical Culture" magazine was probably referring to Miller when it stated that "Some years ago a 'strong man' travelling trough the country created quite a sensation by breaking rocks with his fist. But, strictly speaking, he did not break them with his fist. He would hold a stone a little above another stone, then he would hit the upper one hard with his right fist, which was bandaged, and break it really by knocking it against the lower one". Sebastian Miller's stone breaking method, then, was similar to the one used by Mas Oyama a half a century later." http://seinenkai.com/articles/noble/noble-oyama.html "In the 1950s George Jowett, who was a prolific writer on anything to do with physical culture, advertised a course called "How to Break a Rock With Your Bare Hands". This seems to be extremely rare now; I haven't seen it and cannot say whether it had anything to do with karate or was some kind of continuation of the Sebastian Miller tradition of breaking. Very occasionally you would read about other professional strongmen who included breaking feats it in their act. There was Emil Bregulla, who was active around the early 20th century and who would break rocks with his hands. Interestingly, like Mas Oyama, Bregulla also used to wrestle bulls. Judging by the posters for his act, Al (Aloysius) Marx, another old time strong man would smash stones with his fists." That is the true source of Breaking culture. Strongman Feat. It's not from fighting game. Even the Western World had Breaking before Karate took their spot. In Korea, Charyuk, Kihapsul, Kooksundo still continued to today though.

As for wearing white clothes, that is just the traditional Korean clothes. Korean had colored clothes, but Korean habitually wore white clothes. Also, there were both the versions with a ribbon in the chest & without the ribbon in the chest (more active clothes). Such can be referenced to Korean museum textbooks even today as well as seen from the 19th century photos on Korean streets. So, Korean had white clothes without a ribbon on the chest. This just became so-called "uniforms". Before the introduction of Western clothing, there was no "uniform" in the sports. People just wore everyday-life clothes casually. This became so-called "uniform" today. It is like how Japanese Jiujitsu wears "uniform" with skirt, but it is not really "uniform" historically but just traditional Japanese clothes. The same goes for the "uniform" in Judo, Karate, Taekwondo. When you split Taekyun (Kwonbub-Yetbub doing sparring by wrestling with kicking) into wrestling & Kwonbub (the art of hitting with any body part including punching & kicking), you get Judo & Karate. Like Karate, Judo also has a short history in Japan for the record. There are minor differences, of course, between Judo & Taekyun wrestling. Just like there are minor differences between Taekyun Yetbub & Taekwondo. Taekwondo looks more traditional Korean military style while Taekyun Yetbub looks more civilian style. However, Karate hardly looks different from Taekwondo, & it wasn't like that in 1922.

Gichin Funakoshi's 1922 version Karate can be seen here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8QzMoLt_zw You can clearly see the older way of Karate punching. As for Korean, Korean already had the modern "Karate punching" or "reverse punching" when Karate didn't have such. http://muye24ki.com/muye24ki/muye24ki.php?cat=2&sub=22 That site is in Korean language, but you can see the pictures & the numbers. See the picture number 7, the left side. There is the modern Taekwondo punch. Also, you can see the blocking from the picture number 1. These pictures were drawn hundreds of years ago in Korea in a medieval book called Muyedobotongji. Karate adopted techniques from Taekwondo while Taekwondo adopted Kata system (commercial) from Karate. YMCA Kwonbub (Kyungnong 18ki) was mixed with Karate gyms when starting Taekwondo in the modern era.

No, Korean martial arts are not from Japan. There are many different Korean martial arts. They are just not well known compared to Taekwondo. Even for Taekwondo, the only Japanese influence is pretty much the Kata culture (Poomse). If you see the medieval pictures on Korean Muyedobotongji Kwonbub in the link, you see many similar moves as Taekwondo including the reverse punch while turning wrist. On the other hand, if you see Gichin Funakoshi's 1922 textbook on Karate, such doesn't seem to have existed in Karate. This is because Korean Byungin Yoon taught Korean Kwonbub to Karate. Simply put, Korean has that picture in the medieval era. Japanese don't in the 1922. As for Taekwondo, it originates from a Korean Kwonbub school called YMCA Kwonbub Club. It got mixed with Karate gyms then adopted Karate's Kata system. However, as for the actual moves, most Taekwondo moves can be seen from the medieval Muyedobotongji picture like here. http://muye24ki.com/muye24ki/muye24ki.php?cat=2&sub=22 Even the reverse punch (rotating the wrist while punching) is there as well as the forearm blocking. As for 1922's Karate by Gichin Funakoshi, such doesn't seem to be there. That's because YMCA Kwonbub Club's teacher Byungin Yoon used to teach to Japanese Karate Club. Also, there is a difference between the actual art & the sparring method. Taekwondo just spars with the kicks. It still learns & can do anything else like punching. It's just a way of sparring. Anyway, Taekwondo is still mixed with Japanese customary like Kata because YMCA Kwonbub Club was mixed with Karate gyms. Unlike Taekwondo, there are pure traditional Korean martial arts like Kyuksul (available to North Korean only), Nalparam (available to North Korean only), Taekyun (always have been taught in South Korea). Taekyun is similar to Taekwondo. Taekyun learns the art called Yetbub which strikes with anything including punches. However, Taekyun spars by doing wrestling with kicking. Think Taekwondo except that you can throw other than kicking. Taekyun spars like that. But they still learn everything else like punching in Yetbub. As for Yetbub having always existed in Taekyun, there are 1930's Korean newspapers vouching for it. Taekyun has been numerously recorded as Muyedobotongji Kwonbub & Subak. If you are asking whether there was a Korean Fight Game that spars by striking with any body part including punches, that's North Korean Kyuksul & Nalparam. Even in South Korea, many forms of such existed like Pyunxaum, Gitxaum, Sibak, Nanjangbaksi, but they are not played today. In terms of South Korea, there is no sparring with punching today. North Korea is the only one today who spars with punching.

There are Korean newspapers from "Naver Old News Archive" that mentions Hand Breaking & Kihapsul in the 1930's. I saw no point bringing them here because it's in Korean. http://newslibrary.naver.com/viewer/index.nhn?articleId=1934111800209102008&editNo=2&printCount=1&publishDate=1934-11-18&officeId=00020&pageNo=2&printNo=5012&publishType=00010 In Korean language, the old newspaper mentions breaking a beer bottle with a fist, breaking tiles with fist in 1934. Graham Noble's essay mentions Kiai jutsu. Kihapsul is just the original pronunciation of Kiai Jutsu. Kihap is read Kiai in Japanese. Jutsu is read Sul in Korean. The point is how Breaking Game didn't exist in Karate but how it always existed in Kihapsul / Kiai jutsu including Hand Breaking. http://seinenkai.com/articles/noble/noble-oyama.html "Breaking objects with the hands and feet has probably existed in the eastern martial arts for hundreds of years. In Japan it certainly predated the introduction of karate in the 1920s. William Bankier, the strongman "Apollo", wrote about the edge of the hand blow in his 1905 book "Jiu-Jitsu. What It Really Is", adding that "Some of the Japs who made a study of this sort of thing have been known to actually break very large stones with their bare hand. To such an extent had these men developed the heel or side part of the hand that it almost became as hard as stone." During his military service in France in World War 1, Bob Hoffman, the founder of "Strength and Health" magazine saw an example of breaking in Paris, of all places: "In France during the war, Bob Hoffman told me that he saw a Japanese sidewalk performer actually break slabs of marble with chop blows of his hand. The side of his hand was about half an inch thicker than a normal hand". In 1940 the "Japanese American Courier" reported that "Marking its 34th anniversary the Tacoma (judo) dojo will hold its annual tournament Sunday afternoon at the Buddhist Church auditorium . . . Over 40 black belts are listed for action. An additional feature on the programme will be Masato Tamura's 'rock breaking' demonstration via the ancient Japanese art of "kiai jutsu". He will also oppose a quintet of picked black belts". Tamura was a well known judoka who had got his third dan during Jigoro Kano's visit to America in 1938. In none of these accounts, incidentally, is there any mention of karate."

As for Taekwondo, it originates from a Korean Kwonbub school called YMCA Kwonbub Club. It got mixed with Karate gyms then adopted Karate's Kata system. However, as for the actual moves, most Taekwondo moves can be seen from the medieval Muyedobotongji picture like here. http://muye24ki.com/muye24ki/muye24ki.php?cat=2&sub=22 Even the reverse punch (rotating the wrist while punching) is there as well as the forearm blocking. As for 1922's Karate by Gichin Funakoshi, such doesn't seem to be there. That's because YMCA Kwonbub Club's teacher Byungin Yoon used to teach to Japanese Karate Club. Also, there is a difference between the actual art & the sparring method. Taekwondo just spars with the kicks. It still learns & can do anything else like punching. It's just a way of sparring. Anyway, Taekwondo is still mixed with Japanese customary like Kata because YMCA Kwonbub Club was mixed with Karate gyms. Unlike Taekwondo, there are pure traditional Korean martial arts like Kyuksul (available to North Korean only), Nalparam (available to North Korean only), Taekyun (always have been taught in South Korea). Taekyun is similar to Taekwondo. Taekyun learns the art called Yetbub which strikes with anything including punches. However, Taekyun spars by doing wrestling with kicking. Think Taekwondo except that you can throw other than kicking. Taekyun spars like that. But they still learn everything else like punching in Yetbub. As for Yetbub having always existed in Taekyun, there are 1930's Korean newspapers vouching for it. Taekyun has been numerously recorded as Muyedobotongji Kwonbub & Subak. If you are asking whether there was a Korean Fight Game that spars by striking with any body part including punches, that's North Korean Kyuksul & Nalparam. Even in South Korea, many forms of such existed like Pyunxaum, Gitxaum, Sibak, Nanjangbaksi, but they are not played today. In terms of South Korea, there is no sparring with punching today. North Korea is the only one today who spars with punching.

It is true that board doesn't hit back. Breaking is originally not from Karate, Taekwondo, Kung Fu but from an art called Kiai-jutsu which is called Kihapsul in Korean. It's Korean origin; it is from an art called sundo which is called Kooksundo today. It's the Korean version of Yoga & Qiqong. That's the origin of Breaking. I will make a post on this. Breaking originates from a Korean art Kiai-Jutsu in Japanese language. Simply put, Kihapsul (pronounced Kiai-Jutsu in Japanese) always has had Breaking Game including Hand Breaking. Karate didn't have Breaking (Tameshiwari) until 1950's when Mas Oyama (Baedal Choi) introduced the concept of the game into Karate. That's also why Tameshiwari hits differently from Karate particularly with shoulder moving (Tameshiwari) vs stationary & square (Karate). Most people shouldn't know these facts because Karate tends to hide it. However, if you are serious with history, then you've come across the name Kiai-Jutsu once or twice as well as Oyama's role in Karate's Breaking history. Here are my references. http://seinenkai.com/articles/noble/noble-oyama.html "After we had devised our own breaking methods“ http://www.kyokushinkan.org/en/?page_id=2122 ”Among Mas Oyama’s many accomplishments, he is perhaps best known for introducing tameshiwari or “stone breaking” into the practice of modern karate.“ http://www.gaijinkarate.co.uk/tameshiwari-power-breaking/ “Traditional Japanese martial art schools do not place little if any, emphasis on breaking, although the art of breaking objects is known as tameshiwari” https://books.google.ca/books?id=39oDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA66&dq=black+belt+magazine+july+1987&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=black%20belt%20magazine%20july%201987&f=false Quoting from Black Belt Magazine July 1987, "Kyokushinkai karate master Masutatsu (Mas) Oyama (left) did an in-depth study on tameshiwari, the art of breaking. He subsequently became one of the foremost authorities on the subject (far left)." I also have a lot of Korean newspaper records with Kihapsul & Hand Breaking, but I see no point in posting when you can't read Korean. These English references suffice. So, board doesn't hit back. Breaking originates from Korean Sundo. It's not originally from a Fight Game like Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Karate or anything. As for the techniques, Kihapsul also has many other games like pushing a heavy truck with bare hands or wrestling. They have created, developed, accumulated many techniques & games over the thousands of years of believing in Ki energy (whether it's real or not, what they have accumulated is real). They have always done Hand Breaking whether in the medieval era (also have records) or in the modern era (recorded even in the 1900~1940) or even today (Kihapsul still exists even today in Korea; Korea is just not that well known). Also, it is obviously false that Kihapsul can't create Breaking or powerful strikes on its own. If a sport can create such on its own, another sport like Kihapsul also can do it. Aside from setting straight on whether they could do it or not, they did do it. Breaking Game including Hand Breaking has always existed anyway in Kihapsul. It could happen; it did happen. The word Kihapsul refers not only to Breaking (Breaking is included including Hand Breaking) but a whole set of all such Power Games including pushing a truck or getting hit by wooden clubs or making a truck pass over your stomach. Kihapsul also goes by many other names like Charyuk, Yukki, Yukye. As for the muscle training, Korean used to lift up a large boulder (Deldoldelgi) above the chest level, beyond the shoulder or head. Even without the full extension of triceps, it's a great workout especially in the older days without the gym equipment like today.