Slingblade01

I already have this. It only includes one kata, Seipai. I'm looking for something with a variety of kata.

Hello, I'm looking for a resource, probably a book, that depicts many of the kata performed by Kenwa Mabuni or, if not possible, one of his students that demonstrates HIS style of techniques. I know systems change over time, so I looking for a representation of Shito-ryu from the '30s into the early '40s. I have Kyohan (Funakoshi) and Taihokan (Toyama) and would like something from Shito-ryu to compare and contrast the techniques within the kata, specifically: Pinan 1-5 Naihanchi 1-3 Bassai sho/dai Jitte Rohai all flavors Kusanku sho/dai Unshu Gojushiho sho/dai Any help would be great, Thanks

Yes. Interesting term. Thanks.

Kanku65, thank you.

Wastelander, thank you for sharing that. Is bridge a more appropriate term for the chamber or are you referring to something different? Can you provide a youtube sample?

The purpose of my inquiry is not to understand the application. That, for the most part, is clear. I am more interested in which styles practice each of these methods of chambering. Do any styles practice both? My guess is not. Or better yet, help me classify styles strictly on their chambering method, specifically styles as taught by Funakoshi and Toyama, and to a lesser degree, Mabuni and Chibana. Does Shotokan (Funakoshi) teach a punch style chamber or an across-the-body style chamber? Does Shudokan (Toyama) teach a punch style chamber or an across-the-body style chamber? Does Shito-ryu (Mabuni) teach a punch style chamber or an across-the-body style chamber? Does Chibana teach a punch style chamber or an across-the-body style chamber?

Ok, forget that ever mentioned Chudan. Where my confusion lies is the variations of the chambering of the non-blocking hand. Below are some examples: Soto uke with non-blocking chambered straight out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzn1XgAUBpU Soto uke with non-blocking arm in covering the body. Uchi uke with non-blocking chambered straight out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDjWZfdonLo Uchi uke with non-blocking arm in covering the body.

Ok, now I understand why my question makes no sense. I am aware of two variations of soto & uchi uke. What makes these two variations different is not the blocking arm but rather the other arm (elbow strike/grab/escape/clear...). In these different variations, this "other" arm is either chambered out like a punch or chambered across the body prior to the application of the technique. When I went to youtube for clarification, the 2 or 3 chudan labeled blocks were chambered across the body and the non-chudan blocks were chambered out like a punch. Obviously, I didn't research enough. After reading your answers, I just found examples to contradict my assumptions. This brings me back to my re-revised question...why the two different chambers of the non-blocking arm and are the akin to specific styles? Sorry for the earlier uneducated question.

Thanks for the definitions and the clarification on the varying use of nomenclature. That clears up a one question. What does chudan mean? I guess I should have phrased my original question better: Soto uke vs Chudan Soto uke Uchi uke vs Chudan Uchi uke Do any styles use one exclusively over another? Do any styles show tendencies towards chudan vs non-chudan versions? Which is older? Are there any known origins of chudan and non-chudan versions?

I'm looking for explanations for the variations of: Soto uke & Chudan Soto uke Uchi uke & Chudan Uchi uke Specifically, I would like to know which masters/ schools/ styles taught them between Funakoshi, Toyama, Mabuni, and Chibana? Also, what is the thought process of the Chudan variations? Thank you, David

I also learned backfist and we are Yunmookwan/Jidokwan. For those that are Moodukkwan, are you from Whang Kee or Ki-Whang Kim?

Wow, a simple question yielding a wealth of information. This has to be the best forum ever! Thank you

I've been spending a little time studying the nuances of some techniques and their variations based on styles. I've noticed that age uke rises inside (between the body and lowering arm) with Shito-ryu and outside with Shotokan. How do other styles perform this block? What is the history of the difference? Thank you, David

At this point in time, I would have to agree that is not Okinawan based. And I would go so far as to say it's not Funakoshi based either. As Wado Heretic theorized, I am inclined to believe that it is Chaun Fa based. While most of the TKD founders were students of Funakoshi, Toyama, and Mabuni, there is no evidence that I can find that this chamber came from karate. However, several of the TKD founders had exposure to Chaun Fa. Also, I have found that other TKD techniques were derived from Taekyon which is heavily Chinese influenced. Example: Khaljaebi (throat strike) Unfortunately, I have yet to find this chamber in Taekyon leading me to believe that it is Chaun Fa based.

Furthermore, as stated above, "Sonnal momtong makki is ... strictly a block and nothing more." I posted this question in an attempt to discern to origin of the chamber of the block not the merits or the block.

Wado Heretic, I do not understand your "beginner" Shuto example. You are correct in your assessment that modern TKD relies on a great deal of rotation, not just in sonnal momtong makki but virtually everything. The Koreans no longer want a squared body in any stance. Sonnal momtong makki is, as far as I'm aware, strictly a block and nothing more. Most techniques in TKD are now one-dimensional. Concerning the mechanics of the block, the blocking hand chambers at the opposite waist, then sweeps up vertically just below the nose, and then down to the strike with a rotation of the hand at the very end. bushido_man96, You are right, the style has changed. Competition poomsae is becoming highly structured (think olymipcs). Every nuance within a form has become standardized. There is no longer any interpretation from the individual nor the school. So, back to the matter at hand, the odd high chamber of the rear hand; I have looked through some Taekyun and Soo Bak videos without any success. So far, the ITF chamber is the closest which is odd. The KTA (pre-Kukkiwon) had no love with Choi Hong-Hi, ITF founder. And to suddenly mimic his style is too hard to swallow. I would be more inclined to believe that the Kukkiwon mimicked the same style Choi did. Wado Heretic, Your theory of northern Chinese systems is the best so far I just wish I could pin it down.

I'm clueless when looking at Chuan Fa. Should I be looking at Tai Chi, Sheng-I and Pa-Qua, Shao Lin, Long Fist, or Southern Fist?

Wado Heretic, Thank you for your reply. I understand that a lot of style change were made near or after Funakoshi's death. Are you taking this into account? More specifically, Could Funakoshi have taught palm out in '40s? Also, I've have thus far only found only one technique not found in Karate, the throat strike, Kal Jabi. Thank you for reminding me to look outside of Karate for others. Could you suggest a more specific technique and style within northern style Chaun Fa?

Your theory would imply a Shotokan derivation; Choi Hong-Hi, Lee Nam-Tae (though Lee Won Kyuk) Would you care to post a video link that best represents your theory?

The block referred to below is Sonnal Momtong Makki (knife-hand body block) I believe the formal karate name is Shuto uke. The Kukkiwon/WTF has now standardized every aspect of every block/strike/kick/thrust/etc. Since 99% of TKD was derived from Karate, specifically Funakoshi (Ro Byung-Jick '36-'44?, Lee Won-Kuk ??- '44?, Choi Hong-Hi ??-??), Mabuni (Yoon Kwe-Byung '40?-'44?), and Toyama (Yoon Byung-In '?? - '46, YOON Kwe-Byung '44?-'48?) styles of karate, I wondering if anyone could identify the set position or chamber (Frame #2) for the block. http://taekwondoworld.com.au/?portfolio=sonnal-makki