wingchundroo

Withers M.A.A could you perhaps offer some insight into how TKD works in a crowded situation? I am certain that I do not have a great understanding of TKD and I notice you are a practitioner. Or anyone else? Thanks Droo

I have always wondered how effective it can be in a crowded pub/bar situation. In my opinion thats where a great deal of fighting encoutners occur - drunken idiots. If it is really crowded how can they perform such extravagant moves, even that takedown needed quite a large space to perform. This isn't a critisism of capoeira, but something I think of often, such as TKD. I ams sure someone could provide a nice counter argument as most MA have good in them, just I lack an understanding in a particular area. I train in WC which is very close quartered, and I feel that it would be useful in a tight crowded situation. Could anyone offer an explanation as to how capoira could work in this situation? Thank you Droo

I train in WC and I think that the starting stance (or goat clamping stance or whatever it is!) is unstable from the front. However when you apply the stance principles into a ready stance it is very stable. I think people who do not train in WC see that goat clamping stance and dismiss it as useless. I would never fight with the goat clamping stance, but when it is applied on one of its side it is extremely stable, but something that is essential is to keep your centreline towards the opponent and to keep the body square. the instability of the stance is less of a problem as WC tries to remain off the opponent centreline and from on angle. This is a bit of a quick rant so I'm sure you can all pick at it cheers

This forum is easily heated up isn't it? Admittedly, break dancing with WC is pretty strange. I myself cannot see how it works, I can say that learning how to break fall and roll out of locks is very useful. Given that you have cross trained with a jiu jitsu practitioner do you tell them that their art is not effective? If so what was their reply? I do often wonder how effective ground fighting is in a real situation, if everyone is on the floor whats to stop another guy grabbing the guy on top. But then again that can still happen when standing upright. I have seen many clips from UFC type matches, these guys can really crush people. But wrestling ties up the opponent as well as yourself. Can anyone offer some enlightenment? (By the way I wasn't slagging wrestling and grappling - I just don't have a full understanding). Fistsoffury - Where in Leeds do you train and for how long have you been doing it? Who do you train under? I can understand what you say about experimenting, but why use breakdancing for sweeps? Why not try using sweeps from a MA? saying that WC has similar moves to sweeps in a way don't they?

Whoa! Listen you guys this is getting a bit heavy...it seems that people are just arguing for the sake of it now. IMHO the whole body mechanics thing what some one said (i think treebranch) about body mechanics. I thought he/she meant that body mechanics are different for different arts and they are effective for their own reasons. Just because a WC moves differently to a TKD practitioner does not mean that it cannot be effective. I suppose its all swings and roundabouts where there is positive in everything, but in different ways.

Ok then....Sorry for my last post it was very general I suppose. I agree with everything that has been said anjd it is true that any punch (even WC) uses body. If course it does, I thought by using the body you meant like a western boxer punch. Which at the end of the day is going to knock any WC practitioner or other MA out. When I said the elbow is out i meant this. Quite often people swing with "haymakers", in this instance a straight line punch will take less time to reach a target. This is of course theoretical because it depends on a persons reaction time in the first place. I seem to have struck a raw nerve here, I don't think that any punch is superior than any other. Its as you guys said before in reply to my wormhole comment! To coin an english phrase, its all swings and roundabouts. Thank you for the replies...and if someone could post a link to the punching style you referred to I would be interested to see it. Thank you droo

What was going on in that clip??? Did emin Boztepe just attack him or was it a challenge? It looked messy....emin boztepe was not using WC.. but does this matter? Hmmm.....that looks interesting. What actually happened then?

I think just practicing footwork too helps alot. I have recently realised that my footwork is slightly lacking, now I practice evryday just my footwork. A wooden dummy is good to train footwork to get around the leg as swiftly and efficiently as possible. However, I can not afford this and I sure can't make one...so I just got a four legged chair and used its legs as something to get round. It encourages proper footwork to step around and also as there are four you can move completely around it at many different angles. I also train my techniques over and over again, slowly at first and then with greater speed. Particularily bong sau to laap sau and then strike etc.. different combinations you have come accross can be practiced in the air. Failing that, try and met up with the other students in your association (an obvious one i know).

Yeah but I prefer him in project A and prodigal son....cool MA films.

Hello all I study Yip Man wing chun and I have been trained to use the bottom three knuckles to punch. It is true the bottom knuckles are easier to break, (I am a radiographer and I see many hand fractures from a punch gone wrong). However, it is the way in which we position our punches that stops this. If a horizontal punch was used (like western boxing) and the three bottom knuckles were used they probably would break. However, when vertical the forces the knuckles and fist receive are different to horizontal. I have never had a problem punching vertically with bottom three knuckles. I do admit though that at first I did have a few clashes, but as already mentioned in a previous post we do a lot of punching practice on a wallbag that helps us to correct our punch. As for the whole body punch debate, maybe a body punch is more powerful. But is it as force efficient? It also takes slightly longer as the power has to be wound from the whole body. Wing Chun does use body orientated punches, they are just different to what most people would expect. It depends on the situation I think, using the body to punch often opens the centre of someones body out and has their elbows wide. There is a huge gap to straight line punch into, this is significant due to the whole centre of gravity and postural stability issue. Hitting someone in the centreline of their body makes it harder to deal with the force (as apposed to shoulders etc), and then there's the whole principle of the shortest distance between two objects is a straight line (barring all laws of quuntum physics and wormhole theories!! Although if I could use wormholes to punch with I wopuldn't need wing Chun or anything!). Hope this sheds some light, by the way I am not trying to insult any other styles of punching, just offering my opinion. Cheers Droo

I have to disagree with you on that one. It is impossible to say that one particular art is better than another, one person's criticism often stems from a lack of understanding (no fault of their own). WC is not just about trapping and is an extremely versatile art, we train in sensitivity to be able to adapt to situations where someone may be absolutley raving mad and so forth. It is terribly narrow minded to say that muay thai overwhelms wing chun, and if you say that I am biased I will be annoyed. Anyways one of the first martial arts I started was muay thai. Chi sau is an extremely efficient method to learn techniques in close quarter combat, however it is not a direct application to fighting. It is more a laboratory to gain knowledge, we use it to train sensitivity so that we can "read" an opponent's actions and develop a reaction that does not need conscience thought. Any wing chun practiotioner who tries to use only chi sau in a fight is stupid. as for trapping someone who can't be trapped, a WC practitioner would quickly come to the conclusion that it is pointless. Another tactic would be employed. Hope this has helped, and I would like to add that I don't want to start a flame war....I just don't like anyone disrespecting other MA's.

Hey there Ng I checked your profile too. What's Doce Pares?

Hello again, I fully agree with you Light Ng, when I am more suitably advanced I would like to train with a whole host of different styles, particularily those who do not train in a martial art. I agree with training with grapplers too, but I was trying to say that a martial arts practitioner needs not to automatically train in a grappling art alongside their own. I have trained with a few different schools of Wing Chun and one Sifu showed how certain movements can be used to form some grappling like movements. As for the groundfighting seminar? You got me there! However, it is only a seminar not an actual regular class. It is (like you said) an oppurtunity to train with a grappler to better understand their fighting style. Glad you liked the website, I love some of the video clips on it, especially Master James Sinclair chain punching and the combinations training by one of the advanced students. Sadly I can only view them at University as I haven't got a fast connection Any more thoughts on this? It seems to crop in a lot of places. Cheers Droo

Hello all, I find this quite an interesting read. I am not sure that anyone who practices wing chun should automatically need to train in a grappling art. Does this mean that you feel the system is incomplete. I personally do train in Jiu Jitsu, however I did not start training to reconcile a lack of completeness from WC. I fully agree that WC does not have grappling in it to a large extent, but we train so that we don't fall to the ground. Not all styles of Karate or kickboxing have grappling in, does this mean that they should train grappling too. I understand however, that learning a grappling art can be beneficial as it is more training in martial arts, but not compensation for anything. What are everyones thoughts on this? personally I would not like to grapple with anyone in a real fight as I feel that it is dangerous when the other guys mates steam in. However, I am not trying to slag off any other styles, just iterating my preference. Most martial arts are complete systems, just depends on the practitioners suitablility to the art or commitment to training. Hope nobody takes offence to this post. Thank you Droo