irishwhistle

Yeah, I've found so many deals online that beat his price. But I don't think I'd be too worried about durability if I get her a set now because she's right at the top of her size, so most likely she's going to need a new set anyway by the time it starts to weaken. After that, however, I'll keep what you say in mind. That's not a very impressive product life span. The question now is whether to do it or wait. We're paid up for a month during which I hope to find another nice but more affordable dojo. She likes this one but I have two older kids who need their teeth straightened so I've got to watch costs. Anyway, it seems like they just work around her not having it. Today the teacher just had her do things a little differently from the others, and they only spar for a few minutes a week anyway. It's enough that, even after all the searching and discussion, I think I'll wait... the next dojo may prefer different gear.

Hm, then it's sounds likely that this one just doesn't use them, and that it's probably going to be superfluous in any case as she'll likely outgrow it by the time she goes anywhere near a tournament. Thanks!

Shoot, I got so busy ranting I forgot I had a question. How soon do they need foot padding? The 6-piece gear bundle is such a good deal, but it seems silly to buy an unnecessary pair of foot guards. The guy at the school hasn't even mentioned it.

That makes good sense about the belt fees... I'm fairly literal, so when they say "belt" I don't think of the various fees involved in the testing, I think... well, belt. What an expensive belt. Silly, really. Thanks for the clarification. As for the sparring gear, however, I can't agree. I looked at the items they use and it's just the Macho Dyna sparring gear, head and fist only. In a brief search I have found that even the Macho website charges $10 less than he does and there's even sale items as low as half, plus a set including footguards and mouthpiece for $50. Yeah, he's got them on hand. Of course he does. Both locations keep plenty of items on hand to sell to students, which is fine, they need to make money. But the used car salesman tactics, building up the price and tossing in a copy of his sensei's recently published karate book (I forgot to mention that one) to make the bundle look like a deal, and never so much as mentioning the option of shopping around even after I didn't buy the bundle... I just wish you could just sign the kid up and have a supply list like in my art classes, a couple of recommended shops, the rest is up to you. That's how I'm used to doing things. Not the old, "It's usually $300 but we're having a promotion right now and I can sell it to you for $200, but this is a limited time offer, and you get all the things she's going to need..." Well, I've already ranted about that. I need to go put a band-aid on someone so I'll stop.

Well, that's fine their bias comes from their opinion of their martial arts than from their love of money. Imagine what a person would think of a dojo or a sports team or any of those sorts of things if the leadership and the members didn't seem to think much of it themselves! I just would like to be dealt with honestly... and be able to afford the lessons! As it is with this dojo, if another of my kids wanted to go back into karate, I couldn't let them. And they need the exercise.

First off, thanks for the replies! And yeah, technically it's not a contract! But it achieves similar results after a fashion, if you find yourself thinking you might want to terminate lessons but keep thinking of the awkward chat with the slick salesman who also has his reputation invested... It can deter cancellation. Most people will shy away from that confrontation, and tend to fasten the phrase "paid in full" in their minds to a thing and feel they must get their money's worth. It's silly, but I do it and I see others do it as well. I hadn't actually objected to his having a flat rate for days you choose. That only makes sense, and it was the same as the first dojo I visited. The trouble was that this dude insisted, as did another instructor, that the program should be tailored to the student, immediately after each time I asked about cost. Then after all that, it turns out they do things the same as everyone else and know darned well what it costs, because the only tailoring in the program is based upon how much Mom will pay up front... but to hear him tell it, they invented that way of doing things and the other schools in the area are just starting to get smart and do things the same way. His school has the best karate, you won't find a price like this, teaching like this, etc... and don't get me wrong, I do expect a school to have the attitude that they offer good martial arts, otherwise why run the place at all? And I understand the turnover can be high and it costs money to run the joint. But the runaround was just wrong, and telling me later that most schools in the county charge around $169 was a bald-faced lie. I guess it's plain that it's a McDojo (which is a wonderful name for it... the "Mc" speaks volumes wherever it is placed) and the first I visited was as well. I've been watching the little 1/2 hour classes (yeah, called "Little Ninjas" just like one of the examples on the McDojo site I found) and it's pretty light stuff, one or two punches or blocks, a tiny lecture, one or two kicks, though they do spar... one or two punches each. And they teach them to use terms of respect. Unfortunately, I just don't see how I can afford them, and no longer feel much confidence in the school after the hard sell. Maybe that's good business, but it comes across as a lack of integrity. That's not to say that the "family" martial arts places aren't likely the best fit for this kid. Maybe when she's a little further into it, she may have sufficient interest and drive to enter a school that really challenges, but as you know she's little. She starts each class huddled against my legs until Teacher calls her over to line up, for example. So I will look around for a more affordable substitute, but may still keep it simple. I will have to find a way to explain to her that she won't be able to defend herself much with it because it's not that kind of karate... Y'know, that's why my son decided not to pursue it? He found out he was not to use his karate on his family or friends, and admitted he'd wanted to use it to defend himself against his teenaged sister! She doesn't pound him but they do get into scuffles. I wonder if I can find classes in diplomacy instead... Anyway, I wish I was closer to Torrance. I'm more in the Yorba Linda area. But I looked up the Yanaki Dojo and was impressed with the fact that it was the first of many dojos, for I looked up a lot more than I visited, to list prices. Some would tell about offers and specials but none, not one, in this area was willing to post the regular class fees. And surprise! They only charge $90 for kids! Of course, that's not the only consideration, but it has force. Thanks for the solid advice. Now I have research to do before they decide to charge us for another month.

Begging your indulgence. If anyone here knows about Southern California karate dojos, it would help. Even if you don't, here's the issues... bear with me here... I went around to a few dojos for my son and got sucked into a free sample class up the street. I foolishly let them buffalo me into keeping an unnecessary ghi that had only been worn for long enough to check the fit, and then only the jacket, after my son said he didn't want to keep up the lessons after their free sample class (my daughter decided to continue). They told me they don't believe in contracts but offer a discounted rate if you pay for a full month or year up front. I call that a contract. Technically, it's not, but it's certainly a commitment. They kept telling me the program should be tailored to the student whenever I asked for monthly rates, only to reveal after a week's worth of lessons that they have a pretty open system in which you choose which days to come for one flat rate! They further have told me that my 6-year-old child will need certain items for class, including: sparring gear - head $50, hands $40; patches for the ghi he said he didn't believe in marking, $27; a photocopied, outline form, picture free, unlaminated, manual in a cheap 3-ring binder for $50; a DVD to go with the manual - $50; a gear bag with their logo - $20 (reasonable); and a couple of other items including a coupon for a karate birthday party. I really don't see a karate birthday party as being anything but paid recruitment for them. They have, because all their students "need" all this stuff, bundled it just to be nice... just $300 for the lot but he'll knock off $100! When he did talk about price, sitting me down for a meeting after my kid had had a couple of lessons, he declared that most dojos in Orange County cost around $169 a month, but his special deal would be $140. The random two (one big and popular, one small and hot) I visited before coming to his very conveniently located dojo both told me it would be around $100 a month. So I guess what I'm trying to say is... I think martial arts would be good for my daughter. She's got some self-control and respect issues that have already caused problems in school, and first grade is coming, and she really seems to like martial arts... but 6-year-olds are very changeable and this is a lot of money. I want to compare dojos, but I don't want her to bounce around from school to school, and I think this dude was counting on that. I just can't see paying $50 for a cheaply produced, complicated manual for a 6-year-old, among other things, and after all this I'm feeling fairly cynical. I'm not sure what to expect in these cases, but more and more in my slow way I'm seeing that this school is all about the bottom line. However, the first one I visited had some things I'm not sure about either, thought they willingly told their rates and materials costs to me. If you're still with me, I have a couple of questions. I've already figured out that kid's sparring gear does not have to cost $90 for head and hand gear. It's all online. But what about belts? The first school said they cost $60 and expected the student would likely earn a new one about every 3 months! The second school asks $50. But I'm seeing them in the karate gear shops online for $10! Do you have to get them through your dojo? If the first school is correct, that's approximately $200 a year more than necessary! Also, how in the world do you find a dojo that has real values to pass on to a struggling little girl if they play little mind games with you to keep you in the dark until your little darling has settled in? I have three kids. I asked about price because I need to know. For all the good it can do, if I don't have the cash, I don't have it! Every dollar I spend has a dozen different directions it can go and he's getting cute with me. Sigh... Alright, I've griped, I've asked, I've probably left out something important. The post is too long already. Anyone have any insights? I'm really lost here.