SAAMAG

Quite the conversation so far. Kara-te, by definition is simply empty handed fighting. It has developed over the years to consist of the basic three parts of kihon, kata, and kumite. But how does one define "karate"? Is it the idea that the system contains these three components? Is it the specific way karate approaches combat from a strategic or technique standpoint? Is it the zen-like atmosphere and the culture that it's been born from? Can another form of Karate be bred from another country altogether? The fact is that, every kick and punch that's found in Karate, can be found in other systems and vice versa. The human body can only move so many ways, and most stand-up striking styles utilize the same techniques in some degree. Does the existence of kata, bunkai, ito, tai sabaki, and the like denote the personality of karate, and therefore the essence of its identity? If karate can exist devoid of kata and its affiliated antiquities, what remains that would make it karate versus some other style? Or is there such a thing as styles once you extrapolate the basic techniques?

I read an online blog about a nidan black belt...who looked great in his kata, bunkai, and ippon/sanbon kumite. But what was odd was that he'd never done jiyu kumite. Upon his first experience doing it with another school, he was literally destroyed by lower ranking belts. True story. He said that his prior school always focused on kata. So where does the value lie? In historical value? Because this example seems to illustrate that the value of Kata stops once someone has internalized how to do the basic techniques. Interesting that the dichotomy so far seems to be that it is the essence of karate, but that it's not necessary to "karate" from a skills standpoint. Seems to fall in line with what most experience.

The best hook punch you're doing to find, is the American Boxing hook. By far the quickest and strongest I've come across. The fist positioning generally is done with the fist flat (meaning thumb towards YOU), but the longer hooks tend to be done with a vertical fist aiming with the fist whole or the primary first and second knuckles, however some still prefer to long hook with a flat fist. Hooks to the body tend to be more vertical and diagonal based on the target. The key to a good hook, is to let your body do the work and let the arm simply follow, but keeping your elbow down until the very last second.

I've studied wing chun extensively and teach an augmented form of it in my striking system. Depending on the teacher and their understanding / approach it can prove to be very valuable in terms of the core principles you can take with you. Hopefully it's a teacher with real fighting experience, otherwise you're likely going to be wasting your time. And you're right that generally gung fu today (in China) is more of a dance. "Wushu" is merely a fabricated organization of martial arts created by the chinese government, with only a feint relation to actual martial arts. Wing Chun however, is directly descended from actual chinese boxing. It CAN be very effective once you understand the core of it's movements and the principles that can make it effective. It is a very close quarter (CQC) type of system, using a core of 3 hand forms as the basis for it's defense (tan, bong, and fook). Each one of these hand forms will do something different. One spreads energy, the other deflects, and the last controls. Tan family techniques are those on the radial part of the arm, Bong on the ulnar side, and fook on the palmer portion. The strikes are generally going to be the jik chung choi (straight vertical punch) which is similar to the tate tsuki. But there are other punches like the hook punch (kagi tsuki) and the jung lo kuen (shita tsuki). The training stance is known as Yee gee kim yeung ma--and is very similar to the sanchin dachi. Generally the kicks (gerk) that are used are the front, side, and maybe round kick (geri=gerk), depending on the teacher. Wing Chun works best, in the pocket so to speak, where you can bridge and punch. Very close quarters. It's basically an asian dirty boxing of sorts. Your goal is to punch, and if something obstructs that punch, you remove the obstruction and punch again. You have to stay relaxed, and flow with the incoming attacks as opposed to receiving them as you would with an uki. Lots of simultaneous attack and defense (which you'll hear as "da"...like a grabbing pull of the wrist while you punch is a "lap da"). There's waay too much to go over it all...but long story short...you punch chudan/jodan mostly, and kick gedan (waist and below). You will use simultaneous attack and defense and try to position yourself to immobilize them as you attack. You will pull, press, control, jerk, redirect, spread, dart, and all the while hitting and kicking them. It works GREAT in the standing clinch because of this. Hope that helps.

You will see spin kicks and handstand kicks, just not as frequently as the teep and tad te (front and round kicks). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8q3VQ13heg <--handstand kick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VcBUJmP1F0 <--spinning kicks

So as one of my first posts in this forum, I wish to pose a theoretical question to you all: Is there such a thing as Karate without Kata? By that, can you learn karate techniques and movement with simply kihon and kumite?

Precisely. Muay Thai has all the staple kicks that known to most kicking arts...front, round, side, back, spinning back/wheel, even the handstand kicks!