Bushido Brown

I'm at the very beginning of what I intend to be a long-term study of martial arts. I'm trying to decide exactly what to pursue; to determine what will be best given my short- and long-term goals. To do that, I'll try to describe my current thoughts on the matter and solicit any advice you (the reader) might be willing to give. I'm 25, fat, and just emerging from a quarter century of very sedentary living. I have never been in a physical fight, nor have I seen (in person) a fight involving any sort of mortal danger. I studied shudokan karate for about three months before decided that my physical condition was insufficient to seriously learn martial arts for combat (along with some fairly serious social anxiety, but that's another story ) Ultimately, I'm looking for the full range from studying martial arts: character development, health, martial ability, etc. In the short-term (over the next year, lets say) my focus is strongly on health and character; fitness, mobility, self-confidence, etc. My thought is that studying Chinese martial arts may be the way to satisfice both my short- and long-term goals. I could begin with a study of taijiquan (or something similar) over the next year as I loose weight via other means (diet, exercise, etc... I've already been working this part). Then, when I'm in a condition to really practice something more martial, I could add or transition to a harder sort of kungfu with the idea that, taiji and some species of praying mantis boxing (for instance) have more in common than taiji and greco-roman wrestling (such that studying taiji has greater instrumental value). This is all in contrast to a plan of beginning a study of aikdo for the next year before adding a study of some sort of karate; quite likely shudokan. Having visited several local martial arts schools, I have found what seem to be excellent places of learning for each of the aforementioned styles. The nature of Chinese martial arts themselves seem to be more conducive to my goals. However, what makes me so reticent to commit to that is the fact that I find Chinese culture significantly less accessible (and perhaps appealing) than that of the Japanese. Being somewhat bookish, my first instinct when getting involved in something new is to read about it. I don't read or speak Mandarin or Chinese. However, even in translation, I find most books about Chinese martial arts (and related practices) to be incomprehensible. There is a huge body of seemingly common knowledge that is opaque to me. Pinyin, being less that super helpful in terms of pronunciation, makes reading difficult as the only thing that I know about the proper nouns is that I don't know how to pronounce them. Japanese, on the other hand, is generally easy to pronounce for English speakers, as almost all of the sounds of Japanese appear in English. I can pronounce (more or less) 'Tokugawa' as I read about the development of modern karate. 'Xiang Xin Zhi Nei Gong Yun Dong' is little more than a string of characters and thus difficult to remember or follow. All of this is to say that the cultural opaqueness is extremely off-putting to me. I could learn to read and speak Japanese over time; I will never read or speak Mandarin. Could I study a style and techniques, the names of which I'll always struggle to say? The prospect disturbs me (though friends seem not to see why this would matter... maybe it's just me). So... I would ask for thoughts or advice on the situation. Given what I've described, I would love to hear from those with insight or experience (either one is good ) as to what you think might be the best way to achieve my short- and long-term goals. I'll also apologize for how disorganized this post is... I've gotten very little sleep over the last two weeks. End-of-Semester is a crazy time when you have to deal with students, grade exams, and all of that stuff (I'm a grad student). (Also, I do realize that my username would become overtly ironic if I pursued kungfu )

Thank you all for the replies. In hindsight, I think that my original post was unnecessarily ambiguous. I meant to ask about movement, flexibility, and body control in relation to these two families of martial arts (karate-do and northern shaolin kungfu). I didn't mean to suggest that, in absolute terms, one tends to place an emphasis whereas the other does not. My question was to the relative emphasis. It seemed to me, after visiting 11 or 12 local martial arts schools, that there was some sort of systematic difference, and I brought the question here given the much greater level of experience to be found on the forum. As I said, I think that I asked my question poorly. As a noob, I'm currently in the midsts of a little martial arts crisis (I ought to post seeking advice... perhaps I will), and I'm trying to get a better idea about broad trends in martial arts. Again, thanks!

Thanks, Wolfman; a good response. From what I've read, I suspected these sorts of cultural influences, but it also helps to have to fact of these apparent differences confirmed. Also, I wasn't trying to suggest any sort of value judgements regarding movement. I'm more concerned with the difference being actual or merely apparent. Again, thanks for the reply. Further thoughts are very welcome.

I should say that my specific interest is in comparing movement (rather broadly speaking) as found in karate-do and kung fu, Shaolin kung fu in particular. I am well aware of the broadness of these terms, but they serve for my purposes. Allow me to put my query into some context. I am a noob. For the past six or seven months, I have sought out local martial arts schools in various styles searching for a place that might fit my needs. I observed classes, participated in classes, and exchanged a non-trivial number of emails with several sensei and sifu in the area. Being overweight and extremely sedentary for the vast majority of my life, one of the aspects of martial arts training that most intrigues me in the immediate sense is simply the ability and knowledge regarding movement. Simple control over one's body and the ability to move in ways relevant to martial arts (as well as other things). That being said, I've begun to notice a seeming systematic difference between the practice of karate-do and kung fu in the places that I've visited. It appears to me that kung fu (and I do not mean what we've come to call wushu, but rather explicitly martial kung fu) training involves a much greater deal of focus on movement, flexibility, intimate control over muscles and reflexes than does training in karate-do. I wonder if this is a phenomenon that seems to be true more generally, or if it is simply the artifact of a limited viewpoint. I would also welcome thoughts on the value of the sort of movements found in Shaolin kung fu (and the styles that derive from it). I don't mean this solely in terms of forms and sets and the like, but also in terms of martial application. I ask because, as I reevaluate what I want from a study of martial arts and how I want to achieve it, I find that I am torn between many different qualities that various arts and schools embody. I thought that coming to the Comparative Styles forum might help me in this regard. Thanks. (Sorry for the long post... short posts are not my specialty. I tried to keep it short )

I've only been studying Shudokan Karate for three weeks, so take this as you will... Our sensei has students (even advanced students) regularly train moves in slow motion. For the beginning students, this has much to do with simply learning the basic kinematics of the move (say a roundhouse kick). However, the other stated purpose of doing moves slowly is to teach students to perform the move with their muscle loose, and to only tense them near the point of impact. It teaches you not fight against flexor muscles and the like as that will slow your movements. Perhaps this is utterly basic martial art, and I apologize if this is the case. Advice from a noob

Ok, ok... 5' 10" is a solid height... I surrender! In other news, having tried on a few spare karategi at the dojo that I've now joined, I think that perhaps a size 7 Europa might work well. It's still hard to tell, but size 7 is so much more widely available, which is good. I've been asking people around the dojo about their gi sizes and the like, though it's still a bit hard to translate as I am both more overweight and carry my weight much more poorly than most all at the dojo. Martial arts for fat people can be, in my experience, logistically as well and physically tough I've located a martial arts supply store about an hour from my apartment. I'm going to check out the store this afternoon, and see if I can get a better idea of the situation. I'm hoping that the people there will have advice on finding a fitting gi, and a larger selection of sizes to try than my dojo. Wish me luck... I'll report back after I've visited the store.

Hi, again! Thank you for all of the welcoming. As of last night, I've officially joined a Shudokan Karate dojo... I've been going to classes consistently for 2-3 weeks, and hadn't paid a cent. The Sensei is very big on making sure that the place is the right fit for people, so she's never made an issue of payment or formally joining the dojo... that being said, I knew that this was a place where I could really begin to learn, so I signed all the forms and put in a check for December. Though this is probably a discussion for elsewhere, I thought that I'd mention that I'm considering taking up a second art to study simultaneous with my study of Karate. The karate dojo holds classes thrice a week (I intend to go to each of them), and I think that it would improve my overall level of fitness (which is extremely low) to be active more often in the week. I am currently considering Judo and Aikido for this. Again... thanks for the welcome!

That's interesting... I did not realize this. Some sites explicitly mention selling dogi with white belts, but the vast majority make no mention of it. Good call! I can only hope... I'm worried that a size 8 might be a little too loose... but maybe it won't be... it's so hard to tell. I'm coming in right at 5' 10"... would a tournament cut size 7 require a lot of hemming? Maybe I'll try for a size 7 and hope that it isn't too tight on me...

Yo, So, I'm on the market for my first karategi. Of course, I'm short and overweight... not an ideal body shape for a gi. Having searched through the forums for insight, I thought to go for a large tournament-cut gi. My thought is that I would order a large size (say 8 ) in a tournament cut, which would then sit much like a traditional cut given my shortness. That way, I would minimize the need for hemming while obtaining a gi that would still allow me to move around and such. So, enter the Kamikaze/Tokon. Specifically, the Tokon website sells the Europa in Size 8, which seems as if it might be the best way to go. I've been hard pressed to find a larger gi; especially a larger tournament cut gi. Then I run into a problem: I go to checkout when I find that the certificate authority for https://www.tokon.com expired in August! There's no assurance that the payment page really is Tokon and not some grifters. This brings me to two questions: 1) Does a Tokon Europa seem like a way to go? I know that you don't have my measurements, but I don't know if it would be appropriate to go into all of that since these things come up so very often. 2) Thoughts on the security problem? I've not been able to find any other (reputable) retailer that carries anything Tokon over size 7; I fear that 7 will be too small for me. Unrelated: 3) Am I missing it, or does Tokon sell every color of belt except white? Thanks in advance for whatever help/advice you guys can provide

Way ahead of you... I've tried classes at Kung Fu schools (non-traditional styles like Pyong An Do Won as well as very traditional schools teaching Mizong Luohan, Taijiquan [Wu and Yang], Fu Baguazhang, and Xingyiquan), as well as three classes (they encourage people to show up to 6-7 classes before joining anything) at a Shudokan Karate dojo. I also observed (but did not try) a class at a local aikido dojo, which was pretty cool. I still want to contact people at another dojo which teaches Shotokan Karate, Kendo, and Iaido. (I don't know how legit this place is, as I've not been able to visit it yet). I also want to check out a once-a-week kendo class through my school. At this point, what I need to do is check out this last dojo and the college rec center kendo class. Then, I need to figure out how I want to begin studying martial arts. Though both have their pros and cons, I think that I am much more inclined to pursue Japanese arts rather than Chinese arts. Still, that leaves several options in terms of learning one style or more than one, which one(s), etc etc. Oy.

... not really Hello. I tried making a post, but having received no replies, I thought that perhaps my next move ought to be an introduction thread. I'm a 24-year-old graduate student working on an MA in Boulder, Colorado. I'm short, grossly overweight, and haven't done anything particularly physical in a great many years. I am just beginning my study of martial arts... in fact, I really have yet to properly begin. For the last few weeks, I've been visiting most every decent looking Kung Fu/Karate/Aikido school in the area trying to find something (or some combination of things) that will work for me. I still have a few more places I want to observe, though the holiday has slowed my search. In the course of researching martial arts online, I came across this forum. My reasons for wanting to begin a study of martial arts are myriad and, in all likelihood, pretty boring. Rather than try to fully chart them out, I'll give a snapshot of my goals and motivation. Over the last several years, my life (generally speaking) has slowly drifted increasingly out of hand. I've lacked focus, self-esteem, self-confidence, drive... Now, however, I want to get it together. I'm hoping that, by studying martial arts, I'll be able to facilitate a rebirth of sorts... molding myself into a better person. I'll skip the explanation as to why I've chosen martial arts as the initial vehicle for this goal, but I will say that it has to do with martial arts as a discipline to develop the whole person. Right now, I'm trying to figure out where I want to begin studying, what art (or arts?) I want to begin studying, and how best to begin studying. At the least, expect some serious lurking from me. Though I'm usually extremely reticent to stand out or go out on a limb (even via the anonymity of the internet), I'll try to contribute as I have a great many thoughts about things... I'm just not good at getting them outside my head So... yo!

Hello. Like many posting in this forum, I am soon to begin studying martial arts. To situate my question somewhat, I'll say that I am 24, a graduate student, and I have never studied any sort of martial art before now. Over the past few weeks, I have visited a few martial arts schools in the area. The schools that I've checked out teach Northern Shaolin styles/Tai Chi/polygot Chinese MA as well as a Shotokan Karate dojo. One thing that I've noticed (and this brings me to the focus of this thread) is that, generally speaking, there seems to be a marked difference in the structure of training and of the styles themselves between Chinese MA and Karate. All of the Chinese MA schools I visited were somewhat fast-and-loose in their training; leaning moves from this style here, that style there, weapons here, start doing all sorts of kicks on day one there... etc. In contrast, the Shotokan Karate dojo was much more rigidly structured: well-defined basics, lots of repetition of those basics, a great deal of focus on the execution of those basics being done in just the right way, etc. What I'm wondering... is this, very generally, characteristic of Chinese MA and Karate training, or is it just a quality of the schools that happen to be in my area (Colorado)? This is quite important to me for two reasons: 1) I'll only be living here for the next 6-7 months, and I worry that the things that I learn won't be translatable (in any simple way) to schools elsewhere and 2) while my reasons for beginning a study of martial arts don't include martial superiority per se, I'd like to have some confidence that I am truly learning a martial art, rather than something much less. So, is this sort of distinction common between learning Chinese MA and Karate in the States? If it isn't, what sort of structure in terms of style and training are more common (very generally, of course? I very much appreciate any responses... I've narrowed down my search to two schools (Shotokan Karate Dojo and a polygot Chinese MA/Tai Chi school), and I would find this information to be helpful in deciding between them.