Adamo

Here's a great website from somebody who doesn't practice MMA OR Krav Maga. He's a highly respected man in the world of violence and not just martial arts. If you wont believe what I post, you can read here. http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/MMA.html#Matt That's all I can say because I'm obviously not getting anywhere. I never said I dislike MMA or the people who practice it. But some of the very same comments you made Jim are addressed in that article.

Competition means nothing for an art meant strictly for self defense. And they don’t work? You mean to tell me that if I connected a hard kick to your groin you wouldn’t react? And who was truly trying to do all this. You are fully aware of the situation in a sport. In the street, if you are caught off guard you are going to freeze, run, or fight like an animal. You are comparing a sound human mind to one that isn’t. Not only that but in competition, there’s lots of rules. Not so in the street. And if competition is the ultimate standard…why have they banned these techniques in almost all competitions?...Maybe because nobody wants their eye gouged? Bas Rutten is a supporter of the Krav Maga system. You can find comments of his in black belt magazine and in forewards of Krav Maga books. Yes, he’s has a lot of training but when a man who’s had so much fighting experience and supports a system? And hip toss on the concrete? You better do some more studying on the biological effect during survival. You are telling me that you are going to coordinate your legs and upper body to create an upper hand position in order to execute a hip toss? Fine motor movements. None of them are going to work. Those go out the window when your cortisol is pumping through your body. And I’m not sure why you wish to result in mudslinging instead of keeping it to a mature level? And who’s to say I don’t do any grappling? Quite the assumption. Also quite the assumption that you are going to safely grapple with somebody on the ground. I hope for your sake this person doesn’t have any friends with him or weapons to resort to. This system was created strictly to give people a self defense system. Not for people to work years on using a spinning back kick which would be ignorant to use in most situations. It's a system that can be learned quick and efficiently. No competition so people don't begin to water it down and so that nobody gets hurt. Jim, if you GENUINELY believe that your MMA experience will save you in the street including situations including weapons (because we all know those are used very frequently) then that's excellent. I'm glad you feel that confident. But I hope you understand that comparing a self defense situation to sanitized competition isn't the best thing to do. "People who fixate on fighting don't want to cure the disease, they want to choose the symptoms. As any doctor can tell you, you cannot pick and choose your symptoms. Winning or losing a fight--those are just symptoms. The disease is the behavior that got you into the fight." -Marc MacYoung Isshinryu5toforever, that's a problem all martial arts have. Not just Krav Maga has a few problems. Karate has problems, taekwondo is watered down, people debate over Jeet Kune Do, etc. That's an issue in just about all hobbies and sports. That really doesn't say a whole lot other then it's your duty to find a reliable school and instructor.

Well, I'm staying very far away. We can play devils advocate, sure. He may be one of the most amazing martial artists who is sick but the fact that he was very hesitant to tell me that amount of students he has? "I wish I had more at the moment..." Great point. Online means nothing. But to not find somebodies style mentioned on the internet? With the vast amount of information on the internet, you'd think I could find some mention of the man, his style, or school. The convenience of some organizations is that they place on their site who is certified and who isn't. Just so I don't go too off topic... It's interesting to see the poll results. It makes martial arts such a diverse area. I can see a lot of people originally start with the hope of kicking butt but through discipline they become new people.

I'm seeing some blanket statements made. The idea of watching one Krav Maga video and thinking everybody else is like that is just crazy. These same statements can be made elsewhere especially with the MMA craze. Krav Maga is moving in the right direction unlike most arts. Most are sports heavy or tradition. Too frequently they rely upon fine motor movements. I don't practice Krav Maga so I'm by no means defending "my art." As it's been said many times before...you can't talk about an art as a whole simply because of those you've seen practice. I'm sure we can find some real tough Krav Maga practitioners (like Bas Rutten.) And I'm not sure about you MMA_Jim, but in a self defense situation, I WILL gouge a persons eyes, kick them in the groin and more. I'm not going to attempt to grapple to the ground and make them submit.

I thought I hit the jackpot today. I came upon a school in the phone book that was proud about being a "martial science" and not a "martial sport." I won't name the school for many reasons but...the phone conversation turned out to be the most awkward I've had my entire life. The man begins by constantly hacking and coughing over the phone. He names a style I've NEVER heard about. He proceeds to tell me that his style uses Kung Fu, Muay Thai, Grappling, Kali, and he incorporates the chain whip, sword, scythe, and kama. No website, no trace of his certification on the internet let alone the style. He continues to tell me that he takes his students into the woods to learn knife throwing, tree climbing, and how to navigate the woods. He'll need to make sure I'm "disciplined" otherwise he'll have to hurt me. He proceeds to share some of the incidents where he hurt his students to get them to listen. Does anybody else smell something fishy? Proficiency in that many styles and more? Hurting students to get discipline? No traces and has only 2 students at most?

Thanks for the responses everybody!

I started in the martial arts with the interest of being able to defend myself. Like most people, it started off with the idea that I would perform like Jet Li or Bruce with such flashy techniques. I'd be able to take out multiple people and look cool doing so. Over time my perception changed (thankfully) and I've become much more intelligent about what self defense should be like. I've become much more critical of many martial arts. It's still my #1 goal over the more traditional or sport oriented martial arts. It probably will always be my main goal. Here's my question... Have you ever given up on the idea? From time to time, I realize that I do appreciate the occasional trapping and fancy use of nunchaku's. I sometimes wish I could be like others and just relax. Be able to practice an art that is beautifully executed and very historical like Wushu or Wing Chun. The idea often comes to mind that I could still pick up some useful stuff from these arts. I also often think that getting into a serious situation are pretty slim. I'm an alert person and am constantly aware of potential situations that can be harmful. It's virtually impossible to find any local schools that are self defense based (Krav Maga, Haganah, Kapap, etc). *edit* Sorry, poor English when I made the poll. It should say "Have you MOVED on from the idea of self-defense?"

An external hard drive would work temporarily. It would be one of the fastest ways to get it off the computer also. But if they end up buying another spinning disk hard drive, it's only a matter of time before it all crashes again. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Hard-Drives/External-Hard-Drives/abcat0504003.c?id=abcat0504003 http://www.walmart.com/browse/Computers/Computer-Components/Hard-Drives/_/N-9683?browsein=true&ic=48_0&ref=+427971&catNavId=132959&fromPageCatId=132959 An external hard drive is basically...a hard drive not inside the computer. They are very very easy to use. Buy one big enough for all of your files. Plug it in (normally USB) and it will work like any other additional storage system. If you are familiar with plugging in a USB thumb drive, then it's the same concept. Just copy and paste your files into the external hard drive. Does this make sense?

I will repeat it, back up now! All these suggestions are wonderful, but if the hard drive fails you will lose it all. Regardless of what you do in the long run, at least you will still have the files.

Well, I have been a network administrator for many years. So hopefully I can be of some assistance. In my years, I've found it difficult to provide support unless I'm in front of the computer. They are like puzzle pieces, one fix may not work while another may. So take it for what it's worth. I hope that you are being smart about your files by backing them up. This is the issue in the digital world. While things like CD's, DVD's, etc. cost, they are in analog format. Therefore you have a copy. Your hard drive was not design for storage. You probably have a spinning disc hard drive which means the moving parts can fail just like anything else. So...back up! I can help you figure out what's a good way to back up files if you tell me how much you have. Do it right now because it could just be a PC issue that is going to lead to bigger issues. If your files worked before and now they are corrupt,somethings wrong. (duh) It shouldn't just stop working because of your Microsoft office UNLESS your M. Office has failed. (I assume you have protection against viruses etc, also) You don't have to buy M. Office for $200. I bought a brand new edition from Amazon for about $80 from a seller. You don't need to buy it brand new! That's the good thing. Not only that but they are going to be updating the software since it's the newest and it won't be full of loopholes for pesky viruses and so on. Older versions probably aren't going to be updated so they are easier targets. 1. Make sure you have protection. 2. Back up everything! 3. Office may be corrupt. Take out the original installation disc. Remove your version and reinstall it. That way it's fresh. This would be my first guess. 4. Ask around for somebodies copy. If they haven't used all of their installation codes, use theirs real quick to test it out. If it works, buy your own so they can have it back. That way you don't waste a bunch of money. 5. If this all fails, it would be good to take it to a reputable computer shop.

Wonderful thread! This is something just about everybody has at some point. It's not exactly a good thing or bad thing. Sometimes it's stuff that most people wont pick up on unless they have a very critical eye and have see you for a while. Other stuff should have been stopped but a decent instructor and know better. I realized that my side kicks were terrible because my instructor was telling me to use the entire side of the foot. I believe it was in one of Bruce Lee's books that I discovered the heel was better. That was a major AHA! moment. Then I realized my instructor was telling me to use the bottom of the foot for the hook kick. Found out that you are suppose to use the heel. Viola! My kicks were harder and easier to do. I had no choice but to use it when the instructor was around otherwise he'd complain. Another reason why I wasn't around much longer.

No doubt a concept as everybody here has mentioned. You see parts of wing chun, boxing, and fencing. There's are fundamentals taught and this is why some schools only teach the originals because he's not alive. The other school is that you can't teach it as a style. I personally sit in the middle. I believe you should learn the original but do so in a concept manner and foster your growth in other martial arts to compliment you. He originated by Bruce wanting something better. Essentially he was a guy who believed in what is known today as reality based self defense and MMA. In one of his schools, he had a headstone that was dedicated to oriental martial arts. It basically was wishing them goodbye because they are (not my words) garbage because they are highly restrictive. I'll have to see if I can find that photo on the internet. *edit* I can't find it, but here is a Black Belt Magazine done with Bruce Lee September 1971. It's called "liberate yourself from classical karate." He describes the idea behind Jeet Kune Do in his own words. It's a great insight! (starts at page 24) http://books.google.com/books?id=rtcDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=black+belt+magazine+1971+se&source=bl&ots=bC1Gf6gdWH&sig=-iXhG-4yFrGHGksSbJRZtR4YZ-4&hl=en&ei=IIVmTdyTCYP58AaG4ti0Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

IcemanSK, good on ya' for losing the weight! Ninjanurse, I know exactly what you mean! In TaeKwonDo, I kept constantly having the belt flop in my face and I would look goofy. I don't think some fellow students realized that with long belts and high kicks comes backlash of the belt.

I have searched all over the internet and not found my answer to this question... Why the belt length differences? Aside from the obvious that it could be preference, I noticed a trend. Grapplers don't have long belts and that's often because it can get in the way. From my Judo experience, they don't allow it because if it's so long, they'll actually grab your belt and use it against you. In styles like TaeKwonDo and Karate, you see belts that are long. Sometimes they belt is practically down to the knee. Is there a reason they are so drastically different in length? Is the only reason have to do with practicality?

http://www.centurymartialarts.com/Sparring_Gear/Boots.aspx

Such wonderful responses. Thank you! That's totally understood. And just to clarify, I'm not complaining by any means. I know why they charge and if I could, I would no doubt support a martial arts school. Unfortunately I am not training anywhere at the moment. I have been to two different schools in the past. Neither suited me. There's a few other local schools I'd love to give my shot at. If I were at a school, I would talk to my instructor about the issue. I did see one thing that was pointed out. I do attend a college but it's a community college. I already looked for groups and none exist. But...fortunately I am transferring to a University this fall. A local BJJ instructor gives free instruction. There's also a Karate group as well. Then there's a group where they practice a mesh of arts with the students being the teachers (boxers, BJJ, judo, taekwondo, etc.) So I am already on top of that. Worse come worse, I am forced to take a temporary hiatus. I keep my conditioning up so that's not a problem. Come fall, I'll be able to start up again at the University. I'm sure this thread will benefit somebody else in the future also. Thanks again.

Has anybody ever reached a point in there life where it was impossible to train because of funds? I'm a full time college student and just realized that a down payment was taken from my account. This has left me in a terrible position. I can no longer afford to train anywhere, unless somebody was unbelievably cheap (we are talking $10 a month, which is unreal). This is very frustrating for me and I'm not sure when I'll be able to start again. Any similar experiences around here? What did you do in the time you weren't able to go to a school?

That's funny Wastelander since I'm from Peoria. You described it correctly. Cornfields and crazy drinking. What fights did you go to? Where they put on by Pekin Martial Arts Academy? Somebody else?

I'll back MasterPain on what he said. But then again, the people on this board normally go above and beyond in their research of the martial arts, hence the purpose of being here. If they were dissing you based upon your past experience, that's not cool. But if they simply disagree, so be it. Don't be concerned with your vertical fist, because we were doing some of that in my old TaeKwonDo school. If it works, it works, right? I've seen it used for jabs, Bruce Lee's One Inch Punch, Wing Chun, Boxing, etc. Sounds like they were uneducated. As far as sparring goes, everybody has their own idea of how it should be done. Some go with point sparring for safety as do those who stop punches. Other argue that you have to going bare knuckled. But I see the purpose in all of them as well as the cons. I think your gut instinct is right. It needs to be affordable, close, and fun. Sounds like it's not fun and within the very beginning you are already questioning the instructor. It's never a good sign when you begin to overcome the instructor in knowledge. That happened to me previously and guess where I am now? Elsewhere. Keep us updated! I'm sort of this same camp right now as being as deciding what's right.

Bushido_man, I know what you are talking about. This always drove me crazy when I saw Olympic Taekwondo stylists drop their hands all the time. It looks dumb in my opinion. But this is where I think we have to be honest with ourselves. I find it hard to consider majority of TaeKwonDo schools practical for fighting/self defense. If we label it as a martial art sport, then it makes more sense.

Good to know that they are enforcing hand position during kicks. They have at least one good thing going for them. That's another poor sign as well. A lot of schools don't teach the forms well enough. A lot of local competitions have students going through the motions. No power, no determination, nothing. As a previous assistant instructor, I demanded students throw everything with grace and power. My instructor would begin to sweat after 2 forms. You ought to do yours with power and determination and see how the instructor reacts. I wonder how the instructor does it themselves. You're right on that. Pivot that front foot for power. For whatever reason, a lot of people don't do that. Nice to know you are keeping a critical eye. Most people don't swallow that pill and admit to being at a McDojo but good for you for getting the best out of it.

If ones a black belt and this black belt isn't knowledgeable in self-defense, then imho, that practitioner shouldn't be a black belt in the first place...imho. True. But the reality is very far from that. We very well know that many black belts aren't truly deserving of such.

I wore the dobok that has the V-neck, but that of course shouldn't stop you by any means. Maybe it's more functional for them that way. I started off with TaeKwonDo myself. If I saw a video or pictures, I could critique, but other then that I can't say much. The cardio is very common for TaeKwonDo. My previous school spent 25 minutes on conditioning. I loved doing it because it got people into better shape. Wonderful idea for the philosophy behind the martial arts which is to live a better life. It's great for sparring as well otherwise you'll be huffing and puffing. With the school I attended, we had about 45 minutes after that to work on techniques. Here's something I would highly recommend you pay attention to. It's very common amongst TaeKwonDo practitioners due to poor instruction. Pay attention to their hand positioning while kicking. It pains me to see a proud black belt kick like it's perfect. I can't tell you how many times I see peoples hands drop or go elsewhere other then on guard. This is why so many TaeKwonDo stylists get their butt knocked down when competing. Did you like what you saw with the black belts? Another thing is the round house kick. For whatever reason, a lot of schools don't teach the students to rotate their foot when performing the roundhouse kick. They merely leave their foot on the ground in the same position which causes them to barely turn, put unnecessary pressure on their body, and produces a weak kick. When I look at the hand positioning, skill level of the black belts, and feet positioning of their kicks, that tells me a lot about the school. There's other things as well but I'd have to see them in action.

Good point! I'll 2nd this! I think it's not exactly a bad thing either. It's a necessary starting point as it helps keep people from becoming criminals amongst other things. Keeps them busy and hanging out with a great group of people (hopefully). That in a sense, is effective self defense. But as mentioned above, Sensei8, I gave my explanation of why you don't see that often. That's because, it would be misleading. That is probably the main thing about the martial arts that separates it from so many other hobbies as mentioned by Jeffery. But why advertise yourself as effective self defense when most schools don't know effective self defense? Having a martial arts school and being a black belt doesn't make you knowledgeable in self defense. I think what they should be advertising is the other 2 possibilities. The chance to learn a fun cultural fighting art. Many of the marital arts were designed for self defense, but are very impractical in the modern world. But I think most people can admit, that they love watching a Kung Fu monk work their magic with a chain whip or sword. It's a great way to learn about another culture and it's history. You don't get this from playing basketball. Or they should advertise that they are a martial art sport. This is a different form of sport compared to what most people are use to doing. Advertising effective self defense would of course be the last thing but that should be left to those highly knowledgeable in that field.

I've noticed that very point lately! I've seen about 3 different schools not mention it. Here's the blunt truth. Most people don't know effective martial arts. I think it's a good thing if they know that and therefore don't advertise that way. A lot of people know their style and that's fine. It's good for you in many ways. But to claim it's effective is very controversial anymore. Most marital art schools as I've realized will claim to teach it but what they teach is 30 techniques for one situation or it relies upon fine motor movements. I've seen very few people actually understand the fight or flight reaction and that their style addresses it. Styles like Krav Maga and Haganah address this issue (at least they claim) and some styles of Karate. Or you'll see the zombie knife attacks and you know the exact counter. That's not practicing very good self defense honestly. I also believe that there's a general movement towards sport martial arts. MMA and Taekwondo, etc., are very big these days. They give great characteristics for self defense, but that's not their main concern nor do they address it to the fullest. It's a good thing when they don't claim to teach effective self defense. Does this make sense?