honoluludesktop

Ho.....Interesting topic. Once when I was a kumite beginner, my Sempai placed the edge of his foot on my tummy, then picked me up by yoko geri, and tossed me into the wall. I was about 20 at the time. I have had my kidney hurt for a week, a busted nose, been kicked in the nuts, and have dents in my leg. As most of this happened a while ago, there is probably more that I don't recall. After a while, your skill keeps you safe.

Yes, that is equally true. As society, and technology, change over time, kata bunkai changes. At one time, jujitsu kata had to address fighting in armor against opponents dressed in kind. This is no longer true, and accordingly judo kata has changed.

My understanding of "bunkai" is that it is meant to be an analysis of the kata. Accordingly, there is no right or wrong bunkai.

In a school where the founder is alive, grading, and knows the student well, it is not unlikely that the higher grades are untested in the conventional manner. In a large organization, published criteria would help to assure everyone that they have a fair chance to be graded. Even then, it is likely that some will feel passed up for some arbitrary reason.

The application of any technique in free sparring, is circumstantial, and in response to a situation. Kihon, and kata are basic and basic variations that must be adjusted for fighting. Each styles basic form, affects the body in different ways, and no way is right or wrong, only different. In the late 60s, all TKD fighters could yokogeri very high, very few karateka could. It was probably because of kihon training. In those days, TKD was weak in maegeri. Again probably because of kihon. There is no best way, each style has its good and bad points. In open karate competitions that I have watched, very few TKD persons were able to beat a karateka. While I havn't been to any open TKD matches, I'm sure that karateka would have problems winning.

In 2002, this post states that a study found about 5 million persons practiced some form of martial arts “every chance they get”.

While a obviously accurate observation, this is not a good example when the context of the discussion are fights like the YouTube sample. Is there any chance that the survey included persons from MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc. fights? Probably not, but that can't be determined from reading the study. This is another assumption, however correct sounding it is, IMO is "out of context" regarding the kind of fighting that is the topic of this discussion. Is it relevant to include in all the fighting, that which is part of warfare, being blind-sided, etc.? I don't think this is what LP meant, but clearly a better definition should be provided for "all the fights on earth" to make this a discussion.

It doesn't help when they rush your promotion. As long as you are "on the mat", you have to show that you are up to the grade. When I returned after a long absence, my shodan was reinstated in less then a year. Except for the kids, it was a bunch of time before I felt up to my grade. Even thereafter, each promotion made me feel that I was behind the 8 ball, forcing me to work harder. Eventually there came a point that I felt my skill was matched to my grade, but that was long after, and at a point in time when my grade (the one I, ha, ha, already had.) didn't matter to me.

Sensei8, You are in good company. Wado's founder, said that Naihunchi Shodan was his favorite kata; not because of his technical understanding of it, but because he felt "something special about it". His student, Shoimitsu Sensei gave a seminar and dedicated several hours on Naihunchi. If I find the time, I will extract and annotate if for those that may be interested. After a long lay off from training when I was a young adult, it was the first kata I was able to recall.

In post war Japan, it still remained that regardless of its functional value, sincerity of ones beliefs often counted for more then what was in step with reality. Even today, in fields such as Theoretical Physics, this is often the case.

You don't mean at the stop between the pair of shoto strikes, the position when stepping from the first shimata-dachi, to the other? But, the case when the pair of hands in shuto are backs facing each other, you are right of course, in the kata, the pause there is mental, not physical. In the case of bunkai, if the opponent stands, there is no physical pause. If he advances or retreats, there may be a momentary pause to adjust ma-ai, and destroy the opponent's timing.

He did, read the references to noru.

Shojobo, How do you conceptualize the movement between the pair of nukite strikes? Do you visualize an opponent, or practice the movement as a irimi drill? I do the latter, and use the pause between the strikes as a momentary opportunity to reset subject to the situation. In blocking exercises, I often low block by noru, in the manner of the nukite, but with my fist closed, and from a forward stance. In kumite, I have yet to encounter this movement.

No, but if you are walking around a blind corner, and a person who has had a drink comes around the corner from the other side, and you run into each other, that is an accident, for both of you.

No, I only responded because you asked me to. Perhaps you could provided an example so that like minded people could respond.

??????? I understand your pain, but did you follow the link? One definition of accident: a unplanned, unexpected event for Shizentai.

I am not disagreeing with you, just offering a perspective beyond technique (hammer fist, high block, etc.). Any effort to study kata in any manner is worthy. I too do not care to debate. As for an opinion about a kata's move, it is as I have stated, regardless of the technique, it is the body movement preformed in consideration of the timing (as a function of distance), and rhythm found in fighting. Take for example, any three step (more or less) forward movement in a kata. Each moment is an incremental, reflexive response to your opponent's intention. The kata provides the opportunity to practice the pauses (changes in direction, timing, etc.) that are learned in free fighting. If you step forward in attack, it is in reflex to the imaginary opponent's defense. You do so until your attack overwhelms their defense. If you step forward in defense, it is in reflex to your opponent's attack. This is also done until your defense provides a opening to strike your opponent. This by itself is obvious. But to practice the movement (how to pause, etc.) that allows one to respond to their changing intent, is IMHO the benefit from executing the kata.

I don't make too big a deal regarding the art outside of combat. Any physical sport or activity provides useful real world skills. As for using the word "accident", there are different meanings that fit different situations. Sorry that you experienced a person who tried to disclaim responsibility for hurting someone close to you, but Shizentai had an accident* on her bike didn't she? In this case, the driver of the car was responsible (running the light), and it appears that no one excused him. We shouldn't criticize the victim. *A unplanned, unexpected (on her part) event.

There are people who teach this, but all their applications are modern interpretations. Kata was invented before written history, and its form has inevitably changed over time (everyone knows the lesson of 100 people standing in a circle, each whispering to the next in line a short story that was whispered to them. By the time the story gets back to the original person, it is often completely changed). The word bunkai, mean analysis, something the student is encouraged to apply to kata forms. In addition, any particular interpretation would only work in a narrow range of conditions. Except for various forms of ipon kumite, most kata are practiced independently. Learning a defensive movement without a partner, limited to a single interpretation, has little value in the street. If your opponent comes at you at a different angle, with surprising timing or rhythm, striking in a manner you haven't practice defense against, you have little chance to apply your bunkai to the situation. To create a reasonable performance of kata requires experience in some form of free fighting. Part of that experience includes hard contact, and toe to toe fighting. From fight experiences, the karateka gain the measure of distance, timing to hit, as well as the rhythm of a match. It is these experiences that are brought to kata that give it street relevance. There are some that do not care for free fighting. Properly practiced, ipon kumite is a partial substitute (but without contact, or randomness). Some may question the value of a teacher since we must depend on our own experiences. A teacher provides the basics, drilling, and the opportunity to train with others. IMO however, the inner meaning of kata is not technique, and left for individuals to discover themselves.

The study of this topic uses bad statistical analysis, but is not invalid because there is no control group. Control groups are used (for example) in medical studies where you give people drugs, and measure their response relative to a control group that is given a placebo. The study is invalid because it attempts to create global conclusions out of insufficient data. The conclusions of the study are only valid for the people it measured, not the general population. In a fight, the person that loses, is typically on the ground, unable to get up, and continue the fight. That matches common sense. So what is the big deal with this study. No one, would deliberately go to the ground first in a fight without rules. If you do, you are probably injured, have lost position, have poor mobility, are susceptible to being kicked, being hit with a "picked up" weapon, or jumped upon by your opponent's friends. So, to conclude that it is important to stay off the ground is like stating that water is wet.

I always believed that the quality of the teacher to be the single most important criteria in choosing a school. Can you tell us who they are?

From what I have read written on Okinawan karate training prior to Japanese karate, kata was the only means of training. Kihon, and kumite were Japanese innovations. At that time, matches were fights without conditions.

Sample size is not the question, it is whether the YouTube fights represent a unbiased selection of "all street fights". Even biased is OK if the conclusions state so, but that was not the case. The information required in either case is not conclusively provided by YouTube videos. A accurate survey requires the right data, or a accurate definition of the sample set. The conclusions can then be stated as such. If the data on the sample set is not available, then no scientifically accurate conclusion can be drawn outside the sample set. Again, those that choose to apply the conclusions of the report to the real world are free to do so. Just don't justify that belief within the shroud of inferring that it is a scientifically accurate survey.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I am only stating that it is a mistake to accept the conclusions of this survey based on its evaluation of YouTube videos, as statistically representing what happens in the real world. Btw, your example has nothing to do with statistics that are used to predict future behavior. I have no problems with what you personally wish to make inferences from, or believe in. That is your right.

You are right to a large degree, and modern karate is practiced with improved equipment and methods. However, IMO kata is what keeps us together as a discipline. Even different ryu share similar kata. If we eliminate kata, karate is like kick boxing, not karate. Perhaps the challenge, is to bring modern relevance to kata, without changing its form.