Martialart

Well that's a strong warning, but if you're right then I should. And again, I'm not trying to sell myself on this, but given what you've said: 1. I am technically qualified to teach. I used to train people how to conduct on-the-job training back in my civil service days. 2. I do have a pedagogical innovation to training that I don't want to discuss here, but in truth, unless I start a school, I won't be allowed to use it in the ITA, and it has been a very potent tool for me. I think it would be for others as well. 3. As for teaching people to defend themselves, I'm the poster child for that. But I lack advanced training. Until I reach a black belt level in an already recognized style, I don't feel I have the technical expertise to teach martial arts. But even more than that, there are basics I really have to master much more than I have right now. I know me, and I know my body and in a couple of years, I think I'll be where I want to be. Time will tell though, I suppose.

You know the saying: If one man can do it, another man can do it. I think this is the perfect forum to ask this question. A question posed to me by my fellow Taekwondoist and wife during a commercial break while watching The Office. Let me lay a little groundwork first: We train at a McDojo. The Taekwondo is great; the curriculum is great; most of the instructors are great, but they nickle and dime you to death. We can afford it, but tonight we realized, as we looked around at all the suburbanite adolescent black belts, that we were surrounded by the rich. That is, the kids are rich, but not the instructors. The instructors teach for free. No...that's not true. The instructors have paid through the nose to become instructors and are used for free to babysit the junior classes for the most part. Only a few of the senior instructors are allowed to teach the adult class. We can start training as instructors at blue belt, but of course there are costs involved. It's not the money, per se. It's the honor. If one day we will be used to babysit kids in a belt-mill McDojo, shouldn't we be paid for it? And if we are not to be paid, shouldn't our training at least be free? Just for the sake of honor? But those aren't really my questions. My question is this: what's to stop us from getting our 2nd dan, and starting our own Taekwondo school? Or Karate school for that matter? The ITA did it. Choi did it. Lee did it. In fact, everyone we revere has done it. I have three grandsons. The youngest is five and he's already taking Taekwondo. What's to stop us from starting our own school, our own style? We'd probably be in our early fifties when we were ready. Now, I'm not sold on the idea at all. Not at all. But we're not going to be instructors for the ITA country club. I'll just get my black belt and work out for the rest of my life, if we stay with them--I don't care, but what if a dynasty is our destiny? How would I know? There's senseis in here and students in here. I sure would like to read your opinions.

Big in Japan -- by Alphaville. Hey...wait a minute. Is this just a ploy to get us to reveal our age!

I guess it's all in what you want to do to your body. If they allow full contact to the head, but don't mandate helmets and foot boots and mouth pieces, then the school is a dangerous, irresponsible fight club. There are plenty of those schools around, especially in big cities, same as McDojos. And you don't need that to learn self-defense. In my younger days, I had no problem switching from sparring to fighting, so I don't think you have to take hard hits that damage you in order to learn to fight. And like I said, if he's going to be maimed in class, why bother with self-defense? He can get maimed out on the street. The worst I ever saw in Higashi Karate was a knock-out or a slightly bloody nose. In boxing, you wear a helmet and big gloves. I don't buy for a minute that a person has to risk real injury in order to learn to defend themselves. If that were the case, the military would use live ammo to train with. But I see your point as well, if a person wants to learn to fight that way, or participate in those kind of competitions, then they probably have to train as they are going to compete. I just disagree with that kind of competition.

that is a really neat way to look at training and might be something i want to consider since my instructor always tells me I am too impatient to stay at my current rank... thank you for that thought You're welcome. Thanks for recognizing it.

That's a good point.

First off let me compliment you on an excellent post comparing similar level forms from three different styles of Taekwondo. I appreciated watching them and comparing them. But I guess it's a matter of opinion, since you have essentially three different forms represented. The power and decisiveness of the ITA and ITF are similar as compared to the WTF where most of the form is executed from a walking stance and seems more free-flowing. I think if we weren't comparing an adolescent to an older and more experienced man (ITA vs. ITF) the forms would seem more like one another. What might be interesting is to compare simpler forms. in the ITA we do Chong-Ji and Do-San, and so does the ITF, I think, granted they look somewhat different from each other. Another thing to consider is that ITA's Ho-Am Taekwondo states that it is derived from General Choi's style. It's safe to say, you'll never hear a WTF person claim that. Also, consider things such as the round kick. WTF kicks with the instep. ITF and ITA with the ball of the foot. ITF and ITA both emphasize escape techniques and self-defense. I was in Sang Lee's WTF school in Colorado Springs for over a year (he was many times the head coach of the Olympic team) and we didn't learn one self-defense technique. Also, the sparring is different, as in what's allowed and how it's scored in competition. ITA uses the traditional 3 point, point and break type contest and strikes to the head are counted. Having said all that, I will grant you that I'm new to ITA. However, I probably couldn't have attended a school much more steeped in WTF than Sang Lee's. And the Taekwondo I'm learning is not the same thing. It's much more like Karate, which is much more like the ITF style. Nonetheless, I will certainly grant you that there are significant differences in the hyungs and the way they are executed.

In my school we all wear the padded helmets; it's mandatory. We all wear boots, gloves, shin guards, elbow pads and mouth guards. You can't spar without all that. I think it's insane to spar without that gear and without rules for limited contact, i.e., control. I mean what's the point? If one is going to get injured in class, they might as well not even learn to defend themselves. You're asking for opinions, so I will give mine. Switch schools to one that has better safety standards.

I second that.

Yes, I notice that a lot of schools have as many dan ranks as they do kyu ranks--mine included. But I guess I'm just interested in the curriculum to the level of 1st dan. You know, our school even has levels of each dan. Level 1 - 4, and they actually embroider that on the belt. Anything for grading fees I suppose. I guess I would want to be a 1st dan level 4. I don't know, I just get the feeling that for me, going beyond that is pushing for something that just never mattered to me. It's like someone else telling me what I should want. I want to be a really good black belt in Taekwondo. I never even wanted to go beyond that until someone told me I should want to go beyond that. And I love the way everyone shot down my idea of black belt as a noble institution but now waits in line to tell me how important it is to progress up as many dans as possible. Well, I've come to the conclusion that black belts are not a noble class, but at the same time, I've also determined that anything above 1st dan is a waste of my time. Not that I wouldn't continue training or teaching lower grades. In fact, I'd probably be better at teaching lower grades because my focus would be on the forms and techniques from white belt to black belt. I wouldn't be preoccupied with my own progression--just my own perfection.

I hear you. And like I said, I understand the need for extending the dan ranks within a martial art school or association. You have to in order to grade people to 1st dan, and so on. I just have no desire to open a school or "move up" in the organization.

No, no, no Top Tomcat, I don't study McDojo Taekwondo. It's actually called Ho-Am Taekwondo, and from my study of Taekwondo forms, it's indistinguishable from the traditional Taekwondo of the ITF. It's actually very good, in my opinion, especially in a world where everything seems to be going to sport martial arts. In addition, we spar every class, we do calesthenics and line work and target work, too. There's nothing wrong with the Taekwondo or the class for that matter--it just so happens to be taught in a McDojo. And actually, I've been involved in Higashi Karate, Wado-Ryu Karate, WTF Taekwondo, and now Ho-Am Taekwondo. Well, if that's what I was writing about I suppose you'd have a valid point. But I'm not, so...

Good advice.

Well, given it's an original concept that I discovered in my own training, if I don't write it--even given my lack of experience--I'm not sure who else is going to do so. And by the time I publish it (if I ever publish it) I will be a black belt in Taekwondo. I don't feel the need to tell you about my qualifications in psychology, so we won't go there, but as far as narrow experience goes, what about Bruce Lee? Technically speaking he had a very narrow experience in martial arts. For that matter Gichen Funakoshi had a very narrow experience in martial arts. I mean, actually, when someone says they study six different martial arts, I truly wonder if they are any good at any of them. Besides, without delving into the subject matter--which is premature at this point--for my theory, any martial art or weapons system would apply. Shoot, you could even be a boxer.

So, you think I should strive for 10th dan. Great. I think you should strive for 10th dan, too. I just don't want to. I want to learn up to 1st dan and perfect that. That is all I believe I can really do well. Not to look good so much as to not look bad. If there's a difference. Great, but I can be an instructor as a 1st dan. And your school may be different than mine. The bottom line is, I have to be realistic about my goals in life, or I won't acheive them. I don't have the ability to perfect the six or so hyungs from white belt to 1st dan, unless at some point I stop being a student and start being a practitioner--of those things.

I would agree. If I wanted to promote others to a shodan level, then I would need to be at least a second degree black belt. But I'm not. I hear you. And I have come to the conclusion that I'm happy knowing the basics. Of course, a 1st degree in our school has to do a pretty complicated hyung, so I'm not sure it's just the basics they have learned. Not to mention, along the way, a person learns a lot of different kicks. Be that as it may, to be very good at those things that are basic is fine, in my opinion. And consider the school I'm in: I don't think there's any hidden thing that's all that important that is revealed to the higher dan ranks (unless you include what it takes to buy into the franchise). There are some other hyungs as you go up, to a point, but I really would rather design one of my own at that point. Like I said, though, if I were opening my own school in the ITA, that would be a different thing for sure. Then, organizationally, and for marketing purposes, it would behoove me to be a higher dan grade.

I wholeheartedly agree that life experience adds to the depth of a martial artist. Especially at the black belt level where one is expected to teach the lower ranks. The more outside knowledge one has, the better teacher they will make in that they can make more connections between the material and the student's frame of reference. Gichin Funakoshi, I understand, was a school teacher, for instance.

I've decided not to go above the 1st dan black belt in our school. The reason for this is twofold: something Bushidoman said about instructors not sparring in class, and something I read in a book about Western martial arts. It seems to me, especially in our school where 3rd and 4th dans seem to be a dime a dozen, that elevated black belt levels and titles like Master, Senior Master, Grand Master, Ultimate Lord of the Universe Master, and Before the Big Bang Master, simply become liabilities. Everything I want to learn about Taekwondo, I will have learned by the 1st dan of black belt. In my opinion, I will then "know" Taekwondo, I will be an expert at Taekwondo, and I can then set about perfecting what I know without the pressure to keep adding to it. If I spar and get beaten by a second dan, there's no loss of face. If I beat a second dan, so much the better. I'm 45 years old. There's nothing for me to prove by advancing in the "organization." It's a franchise for god's sake; I'm not even sure I want to be culpable in spreading it. So there's no reason for me to strive the Grand Unified Theory Master level of black belt with untold numbers of dan stripes on my belt. Think about it: every kick I throw at waist level, every board I don't break, every punch when my dobok doesn't pop, every young black belt that prevails over me in sparring would only cause me to loose face and respect if I'm an elevated dan rank. And that's why I never see the multiple dan instructors doing anything in class. There's no way to live up to their belts. Besides, in my thinking, a black belt is a black belt. I've always thought extra dan ranks were for organizational purposes only. In other words, if you have a school, the only way to promote somone to black belt would be to be at least a 2nd dan yourself. If you had two or more schools, and the instructors were 2nd dans, then you would need to be a 3rd dan, and so on. Well, I'm not starting a martial art school. I have a book I want to write on a psychological theory associated with martial arts training, and that will be my contribution to the art, I don't need more than a 1st dan black belt for that. Of course, I'll try to become a senior instructor, but again, that only requires a 1st dan. I will not "work" for a 2nd dan. If my book should become a huge success in the martial arts world, and the ITA just has to have me be a higher dan for their promotional purposes, then they're simply going to have to award it to me. All I'm training for is a black belt. Are there faults in my thinking?

I'm not sure what "pressing the issue" means. I couldn't care less if the instructors spar, and I want to study Taekwondo. In the end the skill level of the black belts in the class is not really my problem nor should I let it be my concern. For whatever reason, there is this group of adolescent black belts. Obviously they've been there at least a few years in order to be 2nd and 3rd dans, and only now is there a slow building up of lower colored belts in the adult classes. What I surmise is that there must have been a block of time when few new people were joining the club. Perhaps it coincides with the start of the great recession. Whatever the case, my wife and I are green belts now, and we need to focus on our own training.

One can choose how he acts, and how he lives, and he treats and interacts with others. As opposed to worrying about whether people assume I am noble or not, I choose to try to live well, do the right things, make good decisions, and be a good father, husband, and worker. Now, not everyone thinks like this. There are those who try to work people over for whatever they can, steal, demean, and do other things to bring someone down, either to get themselves ahead, or, just because they like to hurt others. And, even more unfortunately, both of these groups have black belts among them. I'm sure that there are even some people who are viewed as "noble" that come from both of those groups. In the end, maybe its just semantics. Good word. In the end, nobility, that which makes one person better than another person, is ultimately decided by God. No God; no nobility. But either way, maybe it's as you imply: we need to get on with the task of living right. The way I see it now, if God thinks I'm noble, then I am. If He doesn't, it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. Either way, the question of my nobility is not one I can answer.

I think that's when I first started taking college classes. I didn't get into martial arts again until 1998 in Colorado Springs. The most professional place to train there was at Sang Lee's US Taekwondo Academy. And it was close to where we lived. I would quit the school I'm at now if there was a decent Wado-Ryu school around where I live now, but there isn't. Wado-Ryu will always be my first love, but traditional Taekwondo (ITF-style) is a suitable substitute in my opinion. How 'bout you?

I can't help it. I just went and ordered a couple of pairs of nunchucks and a padded pair. I have a sword, and my wife and I practice with bokkens, but, from the very beginning for me, martial arts has always been paired with nunchucks, and any time I've ever trained, I've always trained both together. Watching this video brought it all back.

I think you hit it on the head when you said it's like going to the circus. But then the circus can be fun. Admittedly going to a martial art tournament and watching free-form katas done to music, or weapons twirling is not the same thing as watching gladiators in the Colosseum, but it's something to do.

Those are some good words. Thanks, Ninjanurse. P.S. Any chance you are a nurse?

I met Pete Spanton once at an event in London. He seemed like a really nice man, and he said a few words to me. I think he signed a book I bought there on Higashi forms. He was very approachable. Tough, but not a tough-guy if you know what I mean. Of course this was back in the mid 1980's. I trained in Swindon, Wiltshire. Are you connected with Higashi at all? No, I am a JKF Wadokai fella, but Wado (and traditional Karate as a whole) in the UK is fairly well connected so of course I know of Mr Spanton and his Higashi group. Spanton was one of the UK's very first dan grades under the Suzuki regime, so his name is up there, however he (like many others) broke away from the Wado fould fairly early on and he has changed things quite a bit as far as I can see. As you say Wado based rather than Wado itself. I know of several ex Higashi guys and am aware of his reputation for "beasting" his students. He trains hard and he trains his people hard. Nothing wrong with that of course. Chitsu Yeah, I left Higashi and ended up training with a traditional Wado-Ryu instructor, but the sparring in Higashi really stuck with me once I got it. And before Higashi, I was a whimp. Heck, in Higashi I was whimp! I would have stuck with it, but the instructor I had was an immature 30-ish type who was just starting his own school in it. He was the type who talked about how great he was and flirted with the girls in the class, and we trained at this stupid free "community center" which was really more like a big shack. I've looked for this guy's picture throughhout the Higashi web sites and I can't find him. I don't know what happened to him. When you pull up Swindon Higashi, it's other instructors that I knew of back then, but not him. Who knows, maybe they weeded him out or maybe he just quit. It has been 25 years. But what I experienced in Higashi by going to the tournaments (to watch) and sparring in class really was a defining moment for me. In fact, I have to tell this story: I had a girlfriend back then, and she had an ex-boyfriend who she said was really tough and into kung-fu and nunchucks. And I was still in my whimp phase of life, so I was actually quite scared of this guy, even though I had never seen him. Nonetheless, in my mind, he was Bruce Lee. We broke up, eventually, she went back to him. And that drove me crazy. Yet, I still had never seen the guy. But being the young man I was, I got into martial arts: I bought a book, then I started in this huge Taekwondo class at some rec center (joke), then I got into Higashi by chance. And of course, I bought nunchucks and after beating myself senseless with them over and over, I actually became quite good at them (double nunchucks, too). So, six months later, after some other break-up with someone else, I'm obsessively driving by her house (as I had done in secret many times) and I see him. And he's this little guy. And I know it's him because he's walking from her house and he's got those black kung-fu slippers on. And maybe I would have been wrong, but I just knew at that time I could pummel him without a second thought. I mean I had come to learn that it's no big deal to get hit; it's no big deal to counter and punch; I could kick fast and high in combination, and I no longer cared if I got beat (because I got beat every day in class). This guy wouldn't have stood a chance. Given what I had been through in Higashi, and practicing nunchucks with this demon in my mind the whole time, I saw him for the first time, and felt sorry for him. Because she was no good--not for me, and probably not for him either, and there was no way I was going to beat up on this smaller opponent who wouldn't have even been in my weight class. So I drove on by and never drove by her house again (She lived in Devizes) That's why sparring in Higashi stayed with me all these years. I used it to beat a demon in my mind (and got seriously tough in the process), and then the demon evaporated. True story.