Chitsu

Not exactly karate but I'd thought I'd share this with your guys. Used to train with these fellas and they are more than a bit good imo. Traditional Koryu Jujutsu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBk9wK6fh44 Enjoy. Chitsu

Hi Shizentai Nice clips thanks for sharing. You've gotta love those "two chairs" demos. Here is a modern spin on a classic. Chitsu

Hi Jay, I think it all comes down to your instructor, how well he/she explains how "your" karate is designed to work and how truthful he/she is. Maybe look at that first. Chitsu

Hi Jeffrey, Couple here for you. First is of Takuya Furuhashi - the current JKF Wado Kai World Champion. And here is one of Michelle Tough - of the England Wado Kai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPDpAsoQ1Qs The second is performed slower to act as a training aid. As an aside, note the distinct lack of head movement prior to the turns. Hope that helps Chitsu Ps - strickly speaking this is Wado ryu as practiced by the JKF Wado kai. Wado Kai in this respect is not a style - it is a group.

Point is you need to be able to feel what you are doing. That's been pretty much concluded in this thread. Chitsu

Good to have a broad mind eh? Chitsu

Sorry couldn't resist.... "Don't think, Feel!!!!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1c05bh6URc Chitsu

Actually, driving is probably the best example of how using peripheral vision and your ability to use it well - will make you a better and safer driver. I used the expression "wider vision" not just peripheral and I don’t think that by using ones peripheral vision it rules out the ability to see directly in front of you. I have heard of another account where US coastguards / Navy are trained to look for survivors of sunken ships by using their peripheral vision to spot the tiniest of evidence in the vast expanse of open sea from their helicopters. I am not saying that one "methodology" is better than the other - but to practice one blindly (if you forgive the pun) just because that’s the way your school does it - is an example of tunnel vision of the mind imo. This is why there are kata that have a head turn (to learn one way) and others that don’t. Problem is that overtime perhaps, this has got misunderstood as “all kata must have the head turn first” Just my tuppence worth. Chitsu

Hi Jeffrey, So, from a head turning perspective, what is closer to what you do? or - Chitsu

For me - in my style - the answer is quite clear - Some kata incorporate a head movement (as a specific move) in its own right - Naihanchi for example, but in all other cases there is NO head turn prior to the body movement. I don't subscribe to the whole "if you don't look first how do you know what you are moving into" - you don’t need to because this is kata. Remember, kata is kata period. It is not kumite and it is not self defence, it is a component part that makes up the sum of Karate so you can fight - in themselves they are not fighting however. Kata are apparatus to learn correct form, movement, tools and stratagems – much more than just a sequence of waza. Turn your head prior to moving, and you are not only adding a move, you are potentially looking away from another “imaginary" attacker. You are also cheating yourself as you are not learning how to use your karate "radar" – one very important and useful tool. Your karate radar is not only peripheral vision it is hearing. By turning head and focusing in on a specific point, your body will not only move differently - compared to if you use a wider field of vision and look as you turn – you are running the risk of engendering a “tunnel vision” effect into your training – something we must of course try to avoid. Peripheral vision is a far more useful tool than focused vision. The light sensitive cells around the periphery of your cornea have a higher sensitivity to movement. Due to the fact that there is a greater number of such cells around the outside compared to the inside, you are more sensitive to movement in the periphery of your vision. The brain will also process this information quicker compared to using focused vision (looking / turning head before moving) - which involves the optical focusing then processing prior to any response signals being sent to the bodies arms and legs etc. - You will respond quicker as a result of picking up something in your peripheral vision. As I understand it boxers train to use peripheral vision for exactly this reason. But here is an added twist – in the melee of a fight, there will of course by a huge surge of adrenalin. What this hormone does is to reduce the effectiveness of your peripheral vision – in essence causing you to have a tunnel vision. This is why imo, kata are designed to specifically practice ways to reduce this eventuality Not so much a case of train hard fight easy, but focus wide during your training and (hopefully) reduce tunnel vision in fighting. Have to look at old footage of the traditional Japanese kata to realise that it isn't common place (in Wado anyway). Have a look at this Kata by Hironori Otsuka sensei (no head turn) It’s the same with the Shito Ryu guys That said, if your group does it then you must incorporate it. It is always good however to understand both sides of the argument. Chitsu

@ Patrick, With the greatest of respect - I find it hard to correlate the teaching of a martial art with that of IT related projects. Whilst I accept that teaching IS a skill and that not everyone can do well - responsibility / health and safety / safe training practices and experience are more realised over the fullness of time I think. As I mentioned earlier - most insurance companies here in the UK will NOT insure anyone as a teacher under the age of 21. That speaks volumes I think, because of the "perceived” risks involved. Let's face it at 19 - I thought I was indestructible. Chitsu

My group awards junior dan grades for both 1st and 2nd dan. In a nutshell, it is "technically" possible for a student to grade to Junior Shodan at 12 years old, and junior Nidan at 18 years old. Neither grade is recognised as "full" until they are 21 years of age. Sandan can not be taken by anyone under 28 years of age. Yondan is 35 and Godan is 40 Club teaching is strictly confined to blackbelts over 21 years of age - but this is mainly due to insurance restrictions. Chitsu

To diverge from the Kata means to make gradual moves away from the conformity of the kata. Not change it, but practice additional processes in tandem with that of Kata. This is done as part of a much wider learning curve – and we are talking after many years of training. In Otsuka sensei's book, he uses the phrase "Enter into Kata then withdraw from Kata" The Martial arts have numerous varieties of kata. Predecessors, over long periods of time, created kata through experience, changes and imagination. It is obvious that these kata must be trained and practiced sufficiently, but one must not be "stuck" in them. One must withdraw from kata to produce forms with no limits or else it becomes useless. It is important to alter the form of the trained kata without hesitation to produce countless other forms by training. Essentially it is a habit created over long periods of training. Because it is a habit, it comes to life with no hesitation - by the subconscious mind. So what I understand Otsuka to be saying is that your training should naturally incorporate the "additional" sets or alternative forms - but that core principles of movement taught in the katas proper must remain intact. What Otsuka is talking about the "ha" stage of "shu-ha-ri" I was once asked whether I ever invented new kata, and at first I answered no, but on thinking about it I do it all the time. Take for example the renraku waza that you do as part of your “Kihon” training - I am always making up new ones of these - and that’s the type of thing Otsuka is talking about imo - renraku waza in this respect is the creation of new forms. The same applies with pair work. Ohyo kumite is a great way to explore options and possibilities that arise out of kata – and these are designed to be flexible – thats the whole point. Then of course we have "Jiyu kumite" or free fighting. Done properly (and not to be confused with WKF style Shiai) this is a great way for the student to withdraw from the kata – and explore new forms – but the kata is always there working away in the background. On writing about Shu-ha-ri, lets remember that although on the one hand it can be viewed as a chronological timeline - more accurately, “Shu-ha-ri” should be viewed as concentric circles that fit within one and other. Transitioning from "shu" to "ha" then "ri" is the embodiment and the internalization of all of these stages, that remain with the karate-ka throughout his lifelong training. At the core of it is the continuity of kata. Katas may have changed over time, but in most part it has been in order to reflect what the founders of styles viewed as important principles within their created style. Despite the fact that in the modern idiom, it seems we are encouraged to be creators of our own style (after all there are so many around these days – why can’t we all do it) – you have to bear in mind that the creators of styles like Shotokan, Wado and Shitoryu etc. were experts in their field, immersed in a martial culture that we here in the west might say we understand but in truth we don’t. So if we look at Shotokan's Heian Nidan it is different to that of its Wado equvilent "Pinan Shodan" because of differing principles of Taisabaki and Kime. But what remains constant is the important relationship of Embusen and Seichusen. What this all comes down to is whether a martial arts school with a Kata based pedagogy is what you are after. Is it the best way to deliver rapid results – NO Is it the best way to effectively identify efficient self defence techniques – NO Are they a repository of Killer martial techniques – NO But they are reference source for correct movement, form, distance , timing, and line. IMO this is truly what makes kata work - the techniques held within kata can be applied in a myriad of ways of you understand this relationship. I do not have disdain for kickboxing. Chitsu

I respectfull disagree with that position. I agree that bunkai is the not fundamental purpose of kata. I agree that the fundamental purpose is to train principles and proper technique and body mechanics. However, I don't subscribe to the belief that kata is indelible and so rigidly structured that changes during practice are always a bad thing. To briefly address bunkai as it relates to this conversation. Very rarely are the bunkai/techniques (of respected martial artists more accomplished than myself) identical in form to the forms found with kata. Rather, it is the principles taught in the kata that are applied and not a slave-like devotion to the external form. Yet, if kata serve the purpose of training principles and technique, it stands to reason that as the movements within the kata become ingrained in our minds and bodies, the logical step is that kata should begin to influence how we fight and, in turn, how we fight should begin to influence our kata. You reference how using a boxing guard influences the position of the shoulders and personal posture within the kata. Yet if we were to substitute the throws, holds and techniques implied within kata for their actual techniques the posture, shoulders, foot position of karate-kas would also shift dramatically and rarely resemble their counterparts as usually practiced in form. At some point, an individual's kata should adapt to represent how they actually apply techniques. Of course, I'm not suggesting that someone cease to train the kata in the traditional manner in which we learned them. But, if you apply a technique or fighting strategy adopted from your kata, it makes sense to me to train that movement in the kata where it appears and not the stylized movement it originated from. This serves to sharpen the applied movements and further engrain them in your muscle memory. If you don't chamber punches in kumite, sometimes training your kata without chambered punches can only reinforce the skills you've already chosen to apply, not undermine them. I hope no one is offended by this position but I haven't found many writings on the subject and my own cross-training has opened my mind to the possibilities. Hi panamerican, Unfortunately I have a problem with this - in much the same way as I have with the stuff promoted by so called "Bunkai Masters" that seem to get lapped up by people who are desperate to plug holes in their kata knowledge. You say that Kata should not be viewed as indelible - and to an extent I agree with that. In Japanese kata based arts they say that kata should not become "Igata" - which is a kind of plant pot mould, but rather it should remain "Ikita" which means living kata, but to an extent I think that we here in the west struggle to delineate between what is accepted as live kata and what is no longer the kata you were doing in the first place. To understand Kata and how it works within any kata based system (be that martial arts or flower arranging) you must understand and importantly have worked through the process of “Shu-ha-ri. To Embrace the Kata To Diverge from the Kata To Discard the Kata. Nowhere does it mention to "Modify the kata". The adaptations you talk about are part of the process of training as a whole - and a sign that you have / are learning about alternative methods as a result. It seems to me you are referring to what my group would say were "Ohyo" or transitional techniques which form a bridge between kata and Kumite and that’s great, but I would urge you not to lose site of the Kata as it is meant to be done. Overtime it will continue to unlock a number of questions relating to technique. I mean no disrespect by this, but if you want to learn kickboxing go to a kickboxing gym. If however you want to learn a kata based art, practice the kata the correct way - don't try and turn it into kickboxing just because (at where you are at the moment) kickboxing seems to make more sense to you. Chitsu

Kata is kata - as my sensei would say. Change it too much and it ceases to be what it was in the first place. Assuming a boxer’s guard for example not only lifts the hands and arms it alters the position of the shoulders and one posture. When this starts you lose the fundamental purpose of performing the kata in the first place.... no not bunkai - that is a by-product. To engender correct technique, form and principles of movement found within. Chitsu