wolfgirl17

I think a certain amount of leniency should be allotted to small children. I teach a Kid Tiger class for 4-7 year olds. They have their own rank system and they test about every 6 weeks for some type of recognition. This helps to keep their interest in the program. We use ½ rank striped belts, stars, patches, etc. The highest rank their children in this age group will receive is green belt. Once they achieve a green belt or turn 8, they get to go into what they refer to as the “big kids class”. The basic goals for children this young differ greatly than for the older kids. For instance, when doing form with a 4 year old, my goal is to get them to do some semblance of the move in the right direction. Even in the “big kid” class, I’m more flexible. I’m semi-lenient on kids from ages 8-12. Chances are, they are going to be under the brown belt level. At age 13 or when testing for brown belt or above, (whichever comes first), the standards are higher. Should children understand things like the basics of a front stance, absolutely. Should their technque be exemplary? Nice idea. Yes, if you make a child wait a year between tests, their technique for their rank is going to be better, but will they be there in a year or will they get bored and quit? Kids need a lot of positive feedback. I would rather have a child test twice a year and score a 6 on a scale of 1-10 on their form as long as they have a love for training than to have a child test once a year and score a 9 on their form but only be there because mom and dad are making them. The child that scores a 6 has a better chance of staying in the art and eventually achieving that 9 in their form when they are older and more mature. As far as child black belts, I used to have a standard rule that a child had to be at least 14 to receive a black belt. That was until I met Erin. The child was amazing. She loved to train and she was very good. She picked things up very quick. She was a complete natural. She began training with me with she was 8 years old and was a 1st gup red belt, when she was 10 years old. I could not see making her wait another 4 years to get her black belt when her technique was better than many of the adult 1st dans. Could she physically defend herself against a full grown man? It depends. Using a one on one test of strength, of course not. But I think if someone tried to kidnap her, she would have the element of surprise when she started punching, kicking and yelling. They certainly wouldn’t be expecting that. Could she get away? It is quite possible. But that was not the point. Her technique was black belt level and she had a great attitude. I decided to wait 6 months after awarding her 1st gup and give her a “pre-dan” rank and then wait another 6 months and test her for a “junior” black belt. (Yes, I created the rank for her). The understanding was that she would remain a junior 1st dan until she was 14 and then be eligible to test into the adult dan ranks. She became interested in teen activities and has since left the club. But I think her ranking was fair. So far, she is the only child I have ever done this with.

Wow, I started this thread as a personal rant but the responses have been very informative. After reading various opinions and contemplating the situation myself, I have come to a conclusion. Yes, the martial arts have changed, but I have not. I understand that instructors are running a business and to a certain extent they have to cater to the wants of the cliental but I will still maintain the philosophy that was instilled in my training. I just have to realize that I can’t force other people to accept this philosophy. When I guest instruct, I will still have students stand at attention and address the instructors and senior belts respectfully. I will voice my displeasure at sloppy etiquette and technique and I will have students do pushups if they are playing around and not paying attention when I am talking. Not because of a God complex or an ego issue, but because listening when someone else is talking is common courtesy and I feel that changes or not, some rudimentary concepts still need to be enforced. I am old style and I do believe that corporal punishment (pushups, running, etc.) is appropriate in certain circumstances. It shouldn’t be overused or it loses its effect. But this is a “Martial” (Military) art and this encompasses a certain amount of military style discipline. Tallgeese mentioned that discipline is based on ones ability to persevere, not forced repetition of “Sir” and Ma’am. Tallgeese, I agree with you to a point. All the sirs and ma’ams in the world won’t make someone a martial artists. However, most students don’t walk through the door with the “I will persist no matter what” mind set. That kind of attitude has to be molded. There are several ways to accomplish this. The way I choose to do this is to have a student first “change their mind”. I want them to walk into the classroom with the idea that this type of training is different. The difference in how I structure the class will hopefully help the person “change their mind”. They can immediately see and experience the fact that this is not simply an exercise class. By first experiencing and accepting a cultural change in outward discipline, my hope is that they will begin to change inward also. (It worked for me). Ok, I’ll ease off of the “Kwai Chang Caine” philosophy. What it comes down to is that I will teach the way I teach and will accept that others also teach in their own way. I’m sure that some of the students will not like me and will dread seeing me guest instruct. However, I am there to teach them, not win their friendship. If nothing more, shaking up their “martial art world” every once in a while will broaden their horizons.

I’m a 4th degree master and have been training for over 30 years. I ran a club about 10 years ago. My job situation changed and I did not feel I was giving the club the attention it needed, so my senior student too the club over. He ran it for about 4 years until he retired and moved away. He passed it on to the next senior student who currently runs the club. The club has been in business for a long time (I started training there 32 years ago and it had been in business many years before that). It is passed down from student to student. The instructor currently running the club (I’ll call him “Kevin”) is a 3rd Dan and is an old friend of mine. Things have calmed now at work and he has asked me to return to the club to teach the kids class. I also make guest appearances in the adult class and teach the adults when “Kevin” is not available. Here is my problem . . . First, I understand that teaching 3-6 year olds is different than teaching adults. I teach the children with games and play and my goals are to instill focus and listening skills along with martial art concepts. However, I feel that the older kids / adult classes are different. Adults are not children and although the adult class should be fun, it is serious fun. The way my instructor taught me and the way I taught my adult students when I ran the club was I guess, “old style” teaching. Students stood at attention, they addressed instructors and senior belts with Sir or Ma’am. No one got their feelings hurt if an instructor raised their voice. Students were expected to learn the class rules and were reminded either verbally or physically if they failed to follow them. What I am seeing now is a watered down version of Martial Art Aerobics. All of the classes are run like the tiny tot classes. I don’t think the adult students even know what an attention stance is. Students regularly talk in class and they walk through their movements. Tonight I was guest teaching the adult class and I raised my voice because as they were doing basic movements, half of the class was looking everywhere but where they should have been focusing. I heard several people outwardly gasp because I voiced my displeasure at the lack of focus. When I had two students do a few pushups because they were not listening when I was talking, you would have thought that I had beat them with a stick. I know I haven’t taught in awhile, but are current martial art classes being taught like recreation center dance classes? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe in openly berating students, but isn’t the first priority to teach the students to be mentally and physically strong and focused? Have things changed that much in the last 10 years? When did the warm and fuzzy concept take over?