Bushido-Ruach

What I meant TG is that they were developed in a day and age where life and death struggles were the norm, when civilizations were more "rough" than the one we live in today. Bach then, it was kill or be killed much more often than we are used to. Being that as it may, when nerve and pressure point knowledge was being built upon as it came to hand-to-hand fighting, they were proven in actual combat. As far as scientific evidence, still, the best I can suggest concerning this would be to get with an accupuncturist that is also versed in such systems as Eagle or Tiger styles of kung fu. These systems, along with White Crane, Snake (particularly cobra chuan fa) and Mantis styles, are all based upon nerve and pressure point attacks. As proof of this, look at the hand formations...tiger claw...OK, for a tiger, it works...but for a man trying to hit or scratch you with his finger tips???? Doesn't make much sense. But when you realize that both Tiger and Eagle style claws are actually grasping and applying huge amounts of pressure to nerve clusters and pressure point areas, it makes a lot of sense. Look at the Mantis hand formation...your index finger slightly curved...to actually HIT someone with that? Come on, now, you just broke your finger...unless you are hitting with less power than you and I are today with our hands and fists...and hitting weak points on the body. That makes a lot more sense. Anyways, that's my suggestion to all who may think pressure points or nerve targeting techniques are bologna, because this seems to be the historical origin of nerve attacks - or better yet, Dim Muk striking points. They are based upon the science of accupuncture, where certain (not all) accutpunture points can be used to attack and damage the body instead of for healing. These same points can also heal, but they also have martial combat applications. See ya around, guys...gotta go to bed!

Sorry, I didn't give a good accounting of myself in the beginning...we still train for responsive spontinaity because, as you have rightly acknowledged, a fight is a "living, breathing animal" that can change and move with every different response that takes place. The purpose in our training so many one-step techniques is in developing effective counter responses in the event you can carry one out...but we also train in such a way that if a one step can't be initiated, a proper spontaneous response can still be accomplished. What I have found in practicing multiple one steps vs. not practicing one steps, is that one-steps gives you a better hand (in my opinion) on an effective response than can end the fight before it goes too far. Also, our one-steps aren't rigid and fixed so that any deviation from the way it is practiced totally destroys the ability of the defender to complete the technique. What I find is practicing one-steps helps one learn body mechanics and learn - spontaneously - techniques they can use in actual combat vs. techniques that are virtually useless in a street fight. Respectfully!!!

You have any proof of all this? Kodenkan Ju-Jitsu, from which my humble martial arts history began, has many such points. There is another point along the stomach meridian located near the bladder that when struck will cause the attacker to begin heaving, as if vomiting, I have personally seen this one many times...it seems to be a favorite amongh black belts sparring one another...seeing who can tag the other first. Some systems still retain such anatomical point attacks, but as I said in my response to Bushido-man, most have purposely stopped teaching such techniques for fear of misuse. Good evidence can be found in any black belt of a system still retaining such knowledge, you would just have to find such a system near you. I have had some of the less dangerous ones done to me, kind of like when Polise Officers have to be tazed when they are being tazer certified, they have to know what it feels like in case they ever have to use it. They aren't fun to experience...but they are real and they do work.

How do they portray the fact that this amount of pressure will cause the heart to stop? Have they tried it, and then recussitated someone? Or is it based off other data? I am assuming that the information accumulated down through the experimental stages of developing such systems of attack, such as those developed in India where tradition says most of the nerve or pressure point systems developed. Chinese history concerning acupuncture developed in an age when the individual was sacrificed for the good of the country...and along with the development of some of those points into attacking points. Acupuncture is thousands of years old, as well as many of these pressure point targets. Most of them do have recussitation techniques that were developed at the expense of many human lives, only in such an atmosphere and age of brutality could such a system of fighting be developed. The recussitation techniques were developed in order for practicing these points on one another. Most martial arts, in making their way to the US, lost such pressure point attacks because of the fear of such knowledge being misused...a very valid fear!

I like this series of videos, Bushido_Ruach, especially the computer-generated "see-through" fighters. I knew that a solid shot to the armpit hit a nerve center, and I've thought of a strike to the neck using the forearm like a club as blunt force trauma. It might stun someone enough to knock him out. There was some "media hype" about the hammer fist blow to the chest and dim mak, but I think of that strike to the sternum as a valid one. I've practiced on BOB using a palm heel, instead, for a greater chance to be precisely between the pectoral muscles. I've wondered if a really strong strike there could fracture the sternum. Interesting video. I liked the see-thru aspect also, it was pretty cool.

The ninja guy dancing around like he did as the voice over occurred also made it hard to take seriously. But then, it's hard to take any "dim mak" talk seriously. Whenever I hear Dimmak I think of Jean Claude Van Damme in bloodsport...haha That's the biggest hindrance to dim muk teaching here in the states...Hollywood has so distorted the truth behind the technique that no one takes it seriously. Here is another example, in my own words so that I don't infringe anyone in the same field...along the Stomach meridian is points 16 and 17 (about an inch above the nipple and on the nipple, respectively), if either one of these points are struck hard enough (or both simultaneously - "hard enough" being 12 pounds of pressure or greater), they will shock the heart and it will stop functioning. The attacker won't have a heart attack, it will simply stop pumping. There are numerous acupuncture points along the body, some of them can be used to cause great damage along with healing...there are a few that, if struck hard enough, or in a certain succession, can cause KO and/or death.

First thing I would do is block it with an elbow jam stop-hit block, if all goes well, his cross won't be coming because he is in too much pain from breaking his fingers on my elbow. Then I would follow up with a finger slap to the eyes so that he can't see very well...and finish him off with a front kick to the gut. There are other scenarios, of course, but that's my favorite.

In our class, first degree regime is as follows... All ten forms done correctly (each one following the belt stage one-step form applications: basic one-steps, one-steps utilizing simultaneous block/strikes, joint locks, take-downs, multiple hits, pressure points, joint dislocations, breaks, vital point (dim muk) strikes, weapon (their choice, either knife, dagga, pen, or escrima). Rolls and falls. All blocking and cleansing techniques. All belt specific targets. Body mechanics as it has to do with reaction to hits, balance disruption, etc. Defense against weapons (un-armed and armed). Proficient in sticky hands forms (basic, balancing, pressure point, vital point) All 1,023 one-step techniques (rank specific) - each rank has between 101 and 136 one-step techniques. All vital point strikes: the target, the affect, the counter measure (if any). Must demonstrate the ability to proficiently defend themself against an attacker (me!). Must demonstrate the ability to teach and lead others. Must demonstrate the 12 tenets of the Code of Bushido (benevolence, bravery, respectful, devoted, faithfulness, honesty, integrity, honorable, upright, self-control, self-discipline, and sincerity).

One important technique to remember, no matter what you physically do (scenario #1), is to kai as loudly and as sharply as you can an instant before you make your move...directly into the face of your attacker. If you have never experienced this before, try it out in class one night. Most people, even when they know it's coming, are taken back by the sudden influx of auditory information suddenly shocking their senses, it momentarily short curcuits the person, even causing them to jump upon the impact of the sound upon their eardrums...they freeze. That second of temporary emobilization can mean the difference between success...and a body bag. Scenario #2 isn't hopeless in the way it is given here...but if your attacker knows what he's doing and pulls you back off balance against his knee, leaning you backward...you are pretty much toast.

Coming from the background of going through Marine Corps bootcamp, discipline in my school is found not so much in punishment, but in drills. I try to instill in my students that they can accomplish things that they don't think they can...a certain amount of push-ups when they don't think they can do another one...holding their side-kick out, even when it's three inches off the floor...basically letting them discover the "eye of the Tiger" that lives within all of us and learning how to bring it out when needed. They don't like it while they are going through it, but afterwards they have that glow...the "Did you see what I did!" glow of extreme accomplishment. If they ever do tick me off, however, everyone's on the floor, on their backs, feet six inches off the floor until I see tears. I have only had to do that once....

To me, wearing your top with the belt outside running around town is a challenge...it looks like you are out showing off, asking for trouble. Of course, there is always the ocassional exception....like getting a call in class telling you someone went to the hospital...(God forbid)

I'm just curious...in another thread (I can't remember which one or where), the number of one-steps within a system came up in the conversation. Someone said, if I am remembering correctly, that they only had something like 37 one-step techniques total by the time the student tested for black belt. In my self defense class, just between Yellow Belt and it's first degree we have 60 one step techniques, 33 from basic escapes, 27 from punches (besides basic sticky hands training). By the time someone picks up their black belt in my school, they have a total of 1,033 one-step techniques filling their brains. Our philosophy is as follows...a fight, when broken down to its simplest constituents, is an attack followed by a blocking or cleansing technique, followed by a counter attack. Basically, a fight is one one-step followed by another, followed by another, ad infinitum until one of the two combatants is taken out. Since a fight consists of such, 10% of our training is learning the basics, and the following 90% is all learning one-steps and then drilling them into the student's brains and reactions. My questions to ya'all is this...how important is one-step techniques to your training? What ratio to one-step training does your school practice in comparison to kata, basics drills, and sparring? And, #3 - do you feel this is adequate in your ability to defend yourself against an attack?

I myself have never heard of breaking the neck with a chopping technique, the most I have heard is attacking the side of the neck where certain nerve centers can be struck as a knock-out. These nerve centers react to being hit really hard by sending so many pain signals to the brain that the brain is actually being overwhelmed by the electrical information to the point that it has to shut down...aka, "KO"

Hey guys, I found this on youtube, and even though it isn't what I was talkinga bout in the other forum topic where this was mentioned, I thought I would put it out there for you anyways...especially for Bushido-man since he asked about hard data on the subject... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMZZr94WFRc Yahoya-te!!!

I think that it is safe to say that there isn't really a satisfying answer to this question. It could take only one blow to take a person out...then it could take five blows to take the next one down...then it could take three for the next......seven for the last. It simply depends upon where the attacker is hit and how hard (sometimes at what angle, also). As someone said...there are a lot of variables to be considered.