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todome
Yellow Belt
Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 67
Location: Winnipeg
Styles: Shotokan
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 Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Chitsu wrote: |
| JAKEHE3078 wrote: |
| without seeing your technique, I would say, remember to fully rotate just before impact. |
But if you fully rotate the fist before impact, you lose the rifling effect of the fist rotation and the trauma caused by it, as the fist penetrated your opponents body.
Tbh, I vary rarely use a twisting punch in application, but the principle is there.
Chitsu |
To tell you the truth my punch is powerful enough to not have to worry about scoring a noogy at the same time.
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Kuma
Purple Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 569
Location: PA
Styles: Kyokushin Karate, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| todome wrote: |
| To tell you the truth my punch is powerful enough to not have to worry about scoring a noogy at the same time. |
You'll see this exact same rotation in a boxer's punches. If you're not doing it, you're only cheating yourself IMO. |
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todome
Yellow Belt
Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 67
Location: Winnipeg
Styles: Shotokan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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oh absolutely. I just think the whole twisting it in on impact thing is incidental to the basic biomechanical advantages it affords.
I agree about the boxing thing. I'm a firm believer that the most significant difference between a classic right cross and a shotokan reverse punch is the rules they're delivered under. Boxers need to be more fleet of foot, have no worries about kicks and need be less committed to it being the final punch of the match. Other than that the same basics are all there. Boxers are just more upright. roughly speaking.
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Kuma
Purple Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 569
Location: PA
Styles: Kyokushin Karate, Muay Thai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I think he was saying rotate before impact, not upon impact. Though some karate styles do this too ("drilling", as I've heard it called), it's more something you can do without gloves than with. |
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2556
Location: Bayonne, NJ USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuma wrote: |
I think he was saying rotate before impact, not upon impact.
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This is the most comfortable--and doable--for me. I'd say that half the time my fist is in motion, it's in the vertical position. I also prefer the three-quarters fist, so I'm not rotating as much as when I'm performing a form.
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Chitsu
Orange Belt
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 230
Styles: "Car Park-Jutsu"
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| joesteph wrote: |
| Kuma wrote: |
I think he was saying rotate before impact, not upon impact.
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This is the most comfortable--and doable--for me. I'd say that half the time my fist is in motion, it's in the vertical position. I also prefer the three-quarters fist, so I'm not rotating as much as when I'm performing a form. |
Hello,
Can I ask, if you complete you fist rotation prior to impact, what do you feel is the reason behind rotating the fist in the first place?
Chitsu
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2556
Location: Bayonne, NJ USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Chitsu wrote: |
[W]hat do you feel is the reason behind rotating the fist in the first place?
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I understand that many people feel it adds power to their punch.
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. . . if you complete you fist rotation prior to impact . . .
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In Martial Mechanics by Phillip Starr, on p. 24 is a series of photos of a rotating fist aimed at the reader. Starr says, "[W]hen you execute a punch, the fist should screw over at the instant just before impact." (emphasis mine)
That's a different view from some who maintain that the fist should complete that motion within the target. It looks like it's not just when you should rotate, but where that we're examining.
For me, the vertical fist and/or the rotation to three-quarters works best for speed and the power I need to generate. A jab by me would be a vertical fist, but a reverse punch would be three-quarters. If performing a straight lead JKD-style, I do it with a vertical fist as I was taught, power added by my bodyweight following the "falling step" concept.
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JAKEHE3078
Orange Belt
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 139
Location: Las Vegas
Styles: Shotokan, BJJ, Muay Thai, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| The reason you twist just before impact, is because in theory if you have good timing and distancing, the fist should still be twisting when you make contact with the opponent. This will cause the punch to dig in and drive through the opponent a little more. |
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SlowHands
Yellow Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 26
Styles: Hakua-Kai karate, Judo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| the way we learned was to twist right before impact, and i don't know if this falls under biomechanical like todome mentioned, but if you were extend your hand out from a chambered position your wrist will turn on its on as it nears full extension. |
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Toptomcat
Green Belt
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 464
Styles: Japanese and Korean karate systems, judo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Speaking as one of the 'finish immediately before impact' crowd, I've always thought that the specific biomechanical explanation for it was that it helped to involve the shoulder muscles. |
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on the post.
